Steve Laramie
Veteran
is a nightmare. Any recomendations? Were shooting a 10 minute short and we are on a very very tight schedule and might not have time to dub. I have 1 rode NTG2 and a wired lav.
getting audio in the city
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
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Steve House
Veteran
Nowhere NEAR enough information for a meaningful answer! What were you shooting where under what conditions for what purpose? Your question is kind of like calling up the doctor and asking "I don't feel well. What medicine should I take?"
Steve Laramie
Veteran
its actually a pretty simple question. city= lots of noise 10 minute short= a decent amount of dialogue no time to dub
rafaeldelauz
Well-known member
it takes a very simple answer . When the location is very loud, you will record a lot of noise. get the microphone as close as you can. next time do better location scouting.
SMuir
Well-known member
Additionally, some mics have better off-axis noise rejection than others. When shooting on a street (especially one that has not been blocked off), a long-shotgun (eg. Sennheiser MKH816) may be your best bet.
Wireless mics will only be useful insofar as they're closer to the talent than they are to the noise source. If the noise is high enough, they'll still get swamped.
Bring a long shotgun and boom as tightly as possible. Record every rehearsal, and do so from as close as possible (ie. if the camera's not rolling, the mic should be well in-frame). Before you wrap each scene, take the actors to the quietest available exterior location (not a car interior) and record wild lines. To maximise the off-axis rejection, keep the noisiest traffic at the sides of the mic (rather than the rear).
Beyond that, budget for ADR and foley, and advise the director to be more selective of the location in the future.
Wireless mics will only be useful insofar as they're closer to the talent than they are to the noise source. If the noise is high enough, they'll still get swamped.
Bring a long shotgun and boom as tightly as possible. Record every rehearsal, and do so from as close as possible (ie. if the camera's not rolling, the mic should be well in-frame). Before you wrap each scene, take the actors to the quietest available exterior location (not a car interior) and record wild lines. To maximise the off-axis rejection, keep the noisiest traffic at the sides of the mic (rather than the rear).
Beyond that, budget for ADR and foley, and advise the director to be more selective of the location in the future.
Steve Laramie
Veteran
well the locations are necessities the only thing he could have done better was to have gotten the blocks barricaded but thats not realistic.
saneproductions
Veteran
shoot with tight headroom. drop the mic in the frame and pull it barely out. It should look like there is no way it is not in the shot. Record lots of room tone for use in post. Did I say get the mic closer (12" from their mouth)?
Steve House
Veteran
Actually it's not - your question didn't even include the information that you were recording dialog - for all it said, you could have been asking how to get the most realistic recording of busses pulling out of bus stops.
Steve Laramie
Veteran
would you really want to watch a 10 minute short of that? I think its possible to do some adr because we have a long take with a steadicam making it impossible to get the mic that close. Also for interiors should we line the walls with something? (somtheing cheep and simple)
saneproductions
Veteran
Inside: moving blankets...thick ones not the cheapest thin ones.
Outside: Have the actors exactly match their performance and pacing of the long steadycam shot and record each of their lines stand alone with the boom in close (at least one full take for each actor with the boom concentrating on them). Then replace the steadycam shot sound with the production sound. You may as well get medium shot coverage while you are doing it. Make sure the actors don't step on each others lines in the singles.
Outside: Have the actors exactly match their performance and pacing of the long steadycam shot and record each of their lines stand alone with the boom in close (at least one full take for each actor with the boom concentrating on them). Then replace the steadycam shot sound with the production sound. You may as well get medium shot coverage while you are doing it. Make sure the actors don't step on each others lines in the singles.
lairhair - shoot as early in the morning as you can, get the mic up the actors nose where possible, monitor your recording closely with a good set of cans that isolate well. A constant rumbling of traffic isnt going to hurt you as much as a sharp beep of a horn or clanging of objects, but you have to catch them.
Indywannabe
Well-known member
You can also use framed blankets to shield off lots of noise outside as well. Home depot pvc pipe frames work just fine to frame the blankets.
Use 2 frames to create a "V" to block the out-of-camera-angle noise; especially if next to buildings and all that noise reflection...or street side if shooting the building angle.
For added entertainment, the V makes onlookers really curious about what is going on behing the blanket.
Oh...throw a carpet under the actors to cut that noise reflection.
Coldpizza
Active member
You have to consider cost, practicality and timeliness.
10 minute short = (most likely) low budget = small crew and less than idea legal ability, Tight schedule = intense heavily packed shoot days.
So I'm guessing you don't have much budget for this one, scale crew and less of a chance of asking for permits and block ofs from the local councils.
Do not use a senni 816 if you ever have used one you would know exactly why. It will pick up the smallest of operator movements and sounds that are irrelevant to the scene. It is an impossible mic to work with and hardly ever used for drama production. Stick to the 416 and neck mics if hiring out additional mics or your NTG2 and single neck mic if not. Use the neck mic as much as possible, be sure to use a second mic going to a separate track as well.
Don't bother trying to block out any city sound it wont work! Unless you can get 2x12/12 grifs with sound proofing materials on them and at least 4 people manning each, you ain't going to be blocking out much. More so the intensity of the shoot and tight schedule won't permit you to hall around a clunky home made construction. More more so this would be a huge indicator for any one in you vicinity and would attract not only innocent spectators but the authorities as well.
Biggest problem of recording sound in a city is the continuity of the background noise. City from afar sounds like a rumble or low level hum, but from up close the individual noise sources are distinguishable and there for will create jumps in the audio track when cut. This means that an ambulance siren must continue through several cuts with in the same scene. So even when considering the off axis rejection, which is good to do, you still must consider the continuity of the sounds regardless. Talk to your sound editors and mixers about this. Alternatively consider sourcing sound effects to drop in the audio track in post to compensate for big and obvious inconsistencies.
Ideally use a separate recording device with good pre-amps, cleaner recording and monitoring means better understanding of what is being picked up. Accordingly favor narrow streets and path ways between buildings as locations to reduce unwanted noise.
Other than that 'Mis en scene' use the city, include it into your story as a crucial part of your look and feel, let it influence the mood of the scenes. By doing so you let the city become a part of your story.
10 minute short = (most likely) low budget = small crew and less than idea legal ability, Tight schedule = intense heavily packed shoot days.
So I'm guessing you don't have much budget for this one, scale crew and less of a chance of asking for permits and block ofs from the local councils.
Do not use a senni 816 if you ever have used one you would know exactly why. It will pick up the smallest of operator movements and sounds that are irrelevant to the scene. It is an impossible mic to work with and hardly ever used for drama production. Stick to the 416 and neck mics if hiring out additional mics or your NTG2 and single neck mic if not. Use the neck mic as much as possible, be sure to use a second mic going to a separate track as well.
Don't bother trying to block out any city sound it wont work! Unless you can get 2x12/12 grifs with sound proofing materials on them and at least 4 people manning each, you ain't going to be blocking out much. More so the intensity of the shoot and tight schedule won't permit you to hall around a clunky home made construction. More more so this would be a huge indicator for any one in you vicinity and would attract not only innocent spectators but the authorities as well.
Biggest problem of recording sound in a city is the continuity of the background noise. City from afar sounds like a rumble or low level hum, but from up close the individual noise sources are distinguishable and there for will create jumps in the audio track when cut. This means that an ambulance siren must continue through several cuts with in the same scene. So even when considering the off axis rejection, which is good to do, you still must consider the continuity of the sounds regardless. Talk to your sound editors and mixers about this. Alternatively consider sourcing sound effects to drop in the audio track in post to compensate for big and obvious inconsistencies.
Ideally use a separate recording device with good pre-amps, cleaner recording and monitoring means better understanding of what is being picked up. Accordingly favor narrow streets and path ways between buildings as locations to reduce unwanted noise.
Other than that 'Mis en scene' use the city, include it into your story as a crucial part of your look and feel, let it influence the mood of the scenes. By doing so you let the city become a part of your story.
Steve Laramie
Veteran
Thanks for all the help. I am not a sound guy I am the DP on this production I am just letting the director use my mics and we only have a boom op.
phloespace
Member
You have def got some great ideas back. If I could make a suggestion I would recomend putting some sort of barrier or deflection filter between the mic and ambient audio "cars, road noise, ext.." set your rhode to cardiod polar and set your mic close maybe a tighter shot if it does'nt effect your lighting. As well an audimated eq could offer the forgiveness your looking for to pull off the shot..
wabbit
Evil has Ears
The 816 is precisely what you would use for this type of situation. Yes it is difficult to boom but it would be the exact proper tool for this.
Lairhair,
You got the deck stacked against you here. Even big budget features end up ADR dialog shot on city streets.
As already stated, try to shoot during the least busy times in that area; Sunday mornings are usually the best.
If the scene is one continuous shot with no cuts then that puts one back in your favor as the inconsistency between cuts is a big problem.
Get wireless on your actors, boom with a long gun (ie 816), and rub a lamp.
Good luck
Coldpizza
Active member
The 816 is what would be used with a bigger budget, bigger crew and more time. As mentioned the shoot does not seem like one that can allow room for any thing but robust and easy to use equipment. Planning to use sensitive equipment that requires a bit of experience and a lot of patience is not wise. I worked on a feature last year shot on busy city streets. The soundy on the shoot deliberately used a 416 combined with neck mics. This is despite the fact he had a variety of mics at his disposal including an 816. Granted he did use the 816 once for a very long shot, but that was once.
Concentrate on using neck mics as much as possible and using shotguns for atmos/back up input mics. Don't forget that the sound quality will be influenced by the recording device and it's pre-amps as much as it will be by the mics used. To that matter consider hiring a knowledgeable sound recorder as it seems like sound will be a big problem for you, not to mention it is standard industry practice for a reason.
Good luck.