Selecting A Scooter For Transportation, FYI

ConspiracyPenguin said:
Yup. Once it's done it will look (and sound) so nice but it won't feel very nice when I pull into the gas station. Oh, well...
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Just don't drive it all the time... it'll be ok. And don't go on a road trip to Vegas either... :)

Gage tells me we have something else in common too: back problems. I've been wearing a brace around all day. I think it is the way I sleep (on my stomach) so I've been trying to sleep on my side.
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Yeah, he told me about that. You have to be careful with your back. Sleeping on your stomach is a bad idea. It compresses your vertebrae in a not-good-way. Sleeping on your side is much better for your back...
 
Tom Marshall said:
The only thing about scooters that bothers me is the people that ride them. Not all people. I'm referring to the ones who simply don't drive safely.

In Los Angeles (and probably all of California), it's legal to split traffic *when safe to do so*. I'm amazed at scooter riders who split traffic and don't even SLOW DOWN! They'll be running around 40 MPH and then slip between cars... my jaw drops when I see that... on Sunset Blvd no less... in almost bumper to bumper traffic.

Another thing they don't realize is they're NOT in a car. They'll pull out in front of people and make left turns in front of oncoming traffic. If they get hit, they're probably dead. I don't know why scooter riders don't realize this. It seems to me that people who ride motorcycles don't do that sort of thing... at least that's what I've noticed.
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I have a saying I tell my kids, "There's no limit to the number of STUPID People out there!" I've seen people in cars as well as motorcycles do some really stupid things over the years.

I'll guess that many of the scooter people you see doing dumb things are new to scooters and have NOT taken the Motorcycle Safe Class OR if they did, they were sleeping during class. While lane splitting is legal, it's something I just don't do, because it ticks off the other drivers and there's always a risk of road rage.


I tried to compare the light weight/smaller engine motorcycles to the scooters and if the engine size and weight is about the same, the MPG is also about the same. The motorcycle may have a slightly higher MPG, but the comparisons I can make are too limited to say for sure.

I was impressed that Harley Davidson's Sportster 883 had 60 MPG highway and 45 MPG city. Not bad considering that the engine is 883cc. Yamaha had a 200c motorcycle that got 78 MPG and a 249cc motorcycle that got 73 MPG. (It's unclear if this is highway only or combined.)


If gas prices stay high or get higher, we are going to see a lot more motorcycles and scooters on the road. Let's hope that the new riders learn to drive safely....


Bob Diaz
 
My bike has an "instant fuel mileage" display that you can switch to, so I did that today and found that when I'm running at around 35 or 40 mph, I'm getting 40 to 42 mpg when I get up to speed, which is great for a sports bike with a V-Twin engine.
 
Here´s what I get when I can´t afford the gas for my hopped up 41 Chevy anymore.

IMG_3609.jpg


Basicly a Simson Scooter cut in half and bolted a couch between it.
It´s called Simson Duo ond gets phantastic mileage.

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Frank
 
Tom Marshall said:
Just don't drive it all the time... it'll be ok. And don't go on a road trip to Vegas either... :)
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Dammit! I love Vegas!

Tom Marshall said:
Yeah, he told me about that. You have to be careful with your back. Sleeping on your stomach is a bad idea. It compresses your vertebrae in a not-good-way. Sleeping on your side is much better for your back...
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Yeah...wish I had known that 16 years ago. I have always slept on my stomach but only now after I got a new mattress has my back started hurting really bad. I am doing the side thing now...when I can handle it.
 
I don't like to sound a discordant note, but I wouldn't seriously consider a scooter, at least, for any use in environments like the ones in which I ride, daily.

1) Road handling: scooters use smaller tires than motorcycles, meaning (a) smaller contact patches at similar tire pressures; your contact patches are the sole connection through which you accelerate, decelerate, and make direction-control inputs (b) more rapid tire heating, which does not improve control (c) a much smaller gyroscopic precession effect; more gyroscopic mass=greater stability, less=inferior stability (d) less shock-absorption from the smaller scooter tires and short-travel suspension; you will feel any road-surface irregularities much more sharply, and in the worst case bumps or potholes that would merely give you a good bounce on a motorcycle can toss you completely out of control on a scooter. Also, the feet-forward riding position is a poorer control posture than a motorcycle's astride-mounted riding position. If you must make a crash-stop on a motorcycle, you can squeeze the bike between your knees and lean on the bars to stay with the bike while it decelerates; on a step-through design you have nothing to lock your knees to, and are much more likely to part company with the scooter on your way to a stop.

(2) Visibility: especially at night, you have a higher profile and are more visible on most motorcycles, compared to most scooters. More important, you have better visibility from a higher saddle.

(3) Emergency reserve power: sometimes you will be better off accelerating out of danger, than braking into it. Between (for the most part) higher-power+faster-revving motorcycle engines and (for the most part) lower-power/lower-revving scooter motors, a scooter can deny you this advantage at the worst possible time. Plus, once again the astride-position in which you ride a motorcycle, is a critical advantage in aggressive maneuvering; if I have to, I can slide left or right off the saddle and use the mass of my body to pull the bike around where I need to: try that on a scooter, and you will simply fall off; there's nothing to hang your leg over in a step-through design.

(4) Lower mass means less stick-to-the-road. If you ride any place with real wind across the road, or lots of large vehicles that generate noticeable bow-waves, this is not to your advantage. Your overall sail area presented to the wind remains similar; the mass on which the wind must act is cut by as much as 50%.

To me, scooters are non-starters based upon their safety and handling characteristics. People with greater risk-tolerance than mine, might be willing to accept that, but in good conscience it's tough to advise anyone to do so.

*edit* and of course, riding range. I don't doubt that there are people who can happily make a 450-mile day trip on a scooter, but I expect they are few and far between, and their ass cheeks must be the consistency of tungsten steel...

...I guess that from certain angles the observation that there's less to learn, to master a scooter (no clutch/foot shifting) might be compelling but frankly if you plan to go out and play in traffic, the fastest-easiest-don't-bother-to-learn philosophy is a seriously terrible starting point, even if it's only reflected in choosing a given ride because you can be lazy and not have to learn a couple of very, very simple new skills.
 
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Good post. I'd also add noise factor. Motorcycles (usually) make more noise and are thus more likely to get noticed by other drivers. I've noticed that when I might be in someone's blind spot that I'll rev my engine a tad to let people know I'm there.
 
Tom Marshall said:
Good post. I'd also add noise factor. Motorcycles (usually) make more noise and are thus more likely to get noticed by other drivers. I've noticed that when I might be in someone's blind spot that I'll rev my engine a tad to let people know I'm there.
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There's a fair lot of debate over this, but I don't subscribe to the loud-pipes-save-lives theory. I know that when I'm in the car, I frequently don't notice a motorcycle's noise until it's passing me; I always pick them up visually, before I hear them.

A few months ago I watched a woman at at traffic light put her car in reverse and back directly into the sport bike behind her - all he could do was twist his throttle; the engine was shrieking and she didn't even notice; just kept rolling back until she knocked him right out of the saddle.
 
I think it helps when someone is getting ready to turn into a lane going the direction you're traveling. Since my bike is noticeable (I'm hoping) from a little noise - not loud pipes, I don't really have loud pipes, it's just not a quite bike - I think it's less likely that someone will pull out in front of me. I'm not necessarily taking this to be a fact and not be as careful about assuming someone would pull in front of me, I'm just thinking it's advantageous to make me a little more noticeable that a scooter.

I'm wondering, why didn't the motorcycle rider not use the horn when the woman started to back her car up? Or did he?
 
I expect that his hand was already on the throttle, and the fastest possible way to make a lot of noise, was to goose the engine.

It's also possible that he could make more noise with the engine, than with the horn. Most bike horns tend to be pretty anemic.
 
Riding a motorcycle is scary. There's no getting around that...

On a positive note, some chick told me I had a cool bike today. :) Makes it all worthwhile...
 
One thing my wife liked about my previous bike, was the attention we'd get, scooting up and down Sunset Boulevard...

...it was a sportbike that seated the passenger high up, pitched forward, and showed off her keister to best advantage. I always regretted that I couldn't see the view from behind, while we were riding...
 
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