Is indie film dying?
- Thread starter Bryan
- Start date
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Talking about Youtube flicks and Idiefilm in one line disqualifies that bloke.
The democratisation of HD gear and the chance (if your skills allow) to produce good quality for a fraction of the Hollywood Studio price (and profit) is what scares the studios - that´s why they lauch such articels.
Frank
The democratisation of HD gear and the chance (if your skills allow) to produce good quality for a fraction of the Hollywood Studio price (and profit) is what scares the studios - that´s why they lauch such articels.
Frank
taormina
Hates to Rent
Battuta,
Mark Gill is no producer, he is a suit. Not sure if you've had a chance to run into one of these guys yet, but they belong on wall street, not on set. I really don't think he has his finger on the pulse of true indie productions.
Miramax is hardly indie - they are a mini major last time I checked.
Mark Gill is no producer, he is a suit. Not sure if you've had a chance to run into one of these guys yet, but they belong on wall street, not on set. I really don't think he has his finger on the pulse of true indie productions.
Miramax is hardly indie - they are a mini major last time I checked.
after_effects
Carbonite Member
I forgot to add to my original post...
- you are the post guy, you start to go through the footage and nothing is slated.
I actually had this happen to me, I agreed to do the post work and went through tons of footage that wasnt slated, not even someone saying this is "5b" before action. Luckily I was able to pass this project off to another guy who wanted to do the post work. I found out later that the project never got finished.
- you are the post guy, you start to go through the footage and nothing is slated.
I actually had this happen to me, I agreed to do the post work and went through tons of footage that wasnt slated, not even someone saying this is "5b" before action. Luckily I was able to pass this project off to another guy who wanted to do the post work. I found out later that the project never got finished.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Also-
-There is no script supervisor, so nothing matches, and the editor gets blamed for the scene not cutting right.
after_effects
Carbonite Member
I have another one.
- Your talent messes up their line, but the director says keep going.(Try to fix that in post without making it look like a jump cut)
- Your talent messes up their line, but the director says keep going.(Try to fix that in post without making it look like a jump cut)
after_effects
Carbonite Member
Ok one more.
- Someone says, "If this doesnt make it into any festivals, it will be huge on youtube."
No, only women with breasts and talking about safe sex get hits on youtube.
- Someone says, "If this doesnt make it into any festivals, it will be huge on youtube."
No, only women with breasts and talking about safe sex get hits on youtube.
well in my very own personal opinion I think that technology played a big role in this, everyone now a days can afford a decent camera and something to edit the movie on and they are calling themselves "filmmakers" for example the latest fest we had I saw some very good stuff don't get me wrong but I also saw some very very bad short films, point here is that with the tools that we have anyone can make a film now and overlooks the million of things that go into making a film like the studios do, so we compromisse because the budget is not there, me personally, I will wait as long as I have to in order to make my first full feature, I will keep learning and shooting as much as posible before I attempt to direct a full feature, the chance has already presented itself with a decent budget but the budget that I know its needed is just not there, and untill the day that the budget is locked, then we can talk just my thought poured out on html 
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
YouTube aside... I don't think much crap rises to the surface... that's great for pond scum, but actually most pond scum is algae, which grew there in the first place... i.e. it may be crap, but it didn't rise through the ranks as crap... something else got it on top and it created crap.
Anymore I think that water finds it's own level... if you consistently produce quality product you won't be an unknown for long.
There are some "cream of the crop" people that produce crap, but they didn't get on top by producing crap... it took some good stuff to get there.
The thing I love about indi film... is that it doesn't care about anything other then "is your product good?" In the digital age we're living a democracy. Lots of people thought that the digital revolution would spawn all these hidden geniuses... but the reality is that quality filmmaking is hard... and the biggest selling product on the planet is HOPE... everybody falls for hope... Hope is thinking that the missing "thing" is all you needed to get to the next level... Hope is blaming outside forces... the digital revolution is hope personified... but since quality filmmaking is hard... it's always going to come down to great content, well-executed.
Do you know what it costs in materials and tools to paint a picture? For everything... stretched and prepped canvas... a vast array of oil or acrylics... and a full kit of brushes... $400 or so... tops.
If I only had his tools I could also be a master of light and emotion... well... artists who can consistently prove their vision and abilities won't stay unknown for long. Painting a great picture is hard until you develop the skills... but a lot of paint hits canvas every day... there are infinite cheap paintings that people are proud of... and few masterpieces... but there is a lot of good stuff that you can pay a lot for in galleries in any major city... artists unknown to you, but you see their work and the commensurate price tag... people get rewarded for quality eventually. No worries.
Anymore I think that water finds it's own level... if you consistently produce quality product you won't be an unknown for long.
There are some "cream of the crop" people that produce crap, but they didn't get on top by producing crap... it took some good stuff to get there.
The thing I love about indi film... is that it doesn't care about anything other then "is your product good?" In the digital age we're living a democracy. Lots of people thought that the digital revolution would spawn all these hidden geniuses... but the reality is that quality filmmaking is hard... and the biggest selling product on the planet is HOPE... everybody falls for hope... Hope is thinking that the missing "thing" is all you needed to get to the next level... Hope is blaming outside forces... the digital revolution is hope personified... but since quality filmmaking is hard... it's always going to come down to great content, well-executed.
Do you know what it costs in materials and tools to paint a picture? For everything... stretched and prepped canvas... a vast array of oil or acrylics... and a full kit of brushes... $400 or so... tops.
If I only had his tools I could also be a master of light and emotion... well... artists who can consistently prove their vision and abilities won't stay unknown for long. Painting a great picture is hard until you develop the skills... but a lot of paint hits canvas every day... there are infinite cheap paintings that people are proud of... and few masterpieces... but there is a lot of good stuff that you can pay a lot for in galleries in any major city... artists unknown to you, but you see their work and the commensurate price tag... people get rewarded for quality eventually. No worries.
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ZazaCast
Major Contributor
The one change you can always count on...is change. We've seen this happen in every industry. There's no stopping it...you just have to adapt and find the nitch that suits you...and run with it.
All creative art is subjective. I've seen crap paintings that a monkey has done sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, 'music' that just outright sucks top the charts, theatre that had worst actors than the ones I have in my movies, terrible mainstream movies that make millions...and don't get me started on preformance art! One man's garbage is another man's treasure.
Money makes the world go round. It all comes down to cold, hard cash. Record labels are just banks for the industry. They could care less how 'good' the product is just as long as it can turn a profit. The movie industry is the same IMHO.
Create your art because it makes YOU happy and expresses YOUR vision...and if you can make a living at it great (if that's your goal), if not...and just one person appreciate it...shouldn't that be enough?
All creative art is subjective. I've seen crap paintings that a monkey has done sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, 'music' that just outright sucks top the charts, theatre that had worst actors than the ones I have in my movies, terrible mainstream movies that make millions...and don't get me started on preformance art! One man's garbage is another man's treasure.
Money makes the world go round. It all comes down to cold, hard cash. Record labels are just banks for the industry. They could care less how 'good' the product is just as long as it can turn a profit. The movie industry is the same IMHO.
Create your art because it makes YOU happy and expresses YOUR vision...and if you can make a living at it great (if that's your goal), if not...and just one person appreciate it...shouldn't that be enough?
I think this brings me back to my original point, "no one gives a damn about your
$8000 feature" that is the way holywood looks at things, maybe we are just in a superficial business and that is the way it is always going to be, look around what do you see, the studio budgets keep going up not down, its sad but true
and don't even get me started on the robert rodriguez crap, I hear this everyday from friends and coligues "hey we are going to shoot
a feature" mariachi style, no budget yeah!!!!!!!!! now if this is for kicks, hey more power to ya but people belive this is going to happen to them I tell them wake up, that was one in a million, fist learn the craft then prectice practice practice and learn some more even before you attempt
just me thoughts poured out on html
$8000 feature" that is the way holywood looks at things, maybe we are just in a superficial business and that is the way it is always going to be, look around what do you see, the studio budgets keep going up not down, its sad but true
and don't even get me started on the robert rodriguez crap, I hear this everyday from friends and coligues "hey we are going to shoot
a feature" mariachi style, no budget yeah!!!!!!!!! now if this is for kicks, hey more power to ya but people belive this is going to happen to them I tell them wake up, that was one in a million, fist learn the craft then prectice practice practice and learn some more even before you attempt
just me thoughts poured out on html
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Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I gotta say that it's refreshing to see so many people on this site get that it's talent, skill, and hard work that matter. None of that guarantees anything of course...except the satisfaction and pride of a job well done. Which, at this point in my life, has more attraction to me than I ever thought possible.
I like Matt's analogy about the painter. Same can be said for writers. Who doesn't have access to a word processing program? We are hardly swimming in brilliant prose.
I like Matt's analogy about the painter. Same can be said for writers. Who doesn't have access to a word processing program? We are hardly swimming in brilliant prose.
Grug
Veteran
The way I see it, all you really need to consider is this notion - there are how many television channels in the world? A couple of thousand perhaps? How many of them run 24 hours a day? Let's say a good 90% or so, of those how many run 365 days a year? Most.
What does that mean? The market for film/video content is HUGE, genuinely massive - if you can produce something half-decent, heck even something that's only 'a bit' bad - you can sell it.
I've talked to a lot of "filmmakers" who seem to think that distribution in cinemas (or maybe selling a few copies of their movie on dvd) is the only option available to them, and if they don't get that there's nowhere else to go. It's just not true - if you can produce something passable that can fit into a regular TV time slot (30/60/90/120 minutes including commercials) you can sell it. It may end up screening shortly before or after midnight on a Monday, but it's a credit and gives you an inroad to produce further content and have that distributed (and you can try selling whatever it is you've produced to other TV stations, and to other countries as well).
Is their a lot more flotsam to float through before you can get people to see your content these days? Yes, that the nature of the digital beast, but if your content is good you can sell it, it's really that simple.
What does that mean? The market for film/video content is HUGE, genuinely massive - if you can produce something half-decent, heck even something that's only 'a bit' bad - you can sell it.
I've talked to a lot of "filmmakers" who seem to think that distribution in cinemas (or maybe selling a few copies of their movie on dvd) is the only option available to them, and if they don't get that there's nowhere else to go. It's just not true - if you can produce something passable that can fit into a regular TV time slot (30/60/90/120 minutes including commercials) you can sell it. It may end up screening shortly before or after midnight on a Monday, but it's a credit and gives you an inroad to produce further content and have that distributed (and you can try selling whatever it is you've produced to other TV stations, and to other countries as well).
Is their a lot more flotsam to float through before you can get people to see your content these days? Yes, that the nature of the digital beast, but if your content is good you can sell it, it's really that simple.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Thanks! We are shooting quite a bit with it, but mostly just pretty stuff for the reel (which I hope to update soon). We'll be working on a short next month (ken is shooting and I am editing), which I am excited about because the plot and locations lend themselves to some very stylized shots.
Our feature is still seeking funding though
Now back to your scheduled programming :thumbup:
ZazaCast
Major Contributor
One word...Infomercials! You're right...everytime I turn the TV on past 3:00am, that's all you can find!
Two things:
1) Where there is demand, there is money to be made. I didn't write that. It's wisdom from the business world. No one thought you could make money off the Internet a few years ago either (remember the dot.com implosion)? Now Google is one of the richest companies in the world. Where there are consumers, the marketplace has an uncanny knack for finding a way to turn that into gold. And there are more consumers hungry for media than ever before.
2) While no one knows for sure (but #1 still applies), I think there are already a few very well reasoned proposals for how to turn "pull" driven distribution into money. Embedded branding and product placement, for one. You want to give away your movie if advertisers are paying for every pair of eyeballs. The more people who share and burn your movie, the more the "ads" are seen, and the more money the movie makes. This is just one such proposal, and fankly it's a very logical successor in my mind. And before you vomit over those words "product placement" remember:
- you spend a lot of time clearing labels and brands in your movie anyhow...wouldn't it be better if someone paid you to KEEP it in instead of ensuring your actor covers the beer can label with his hand or your art department designs and prints a whole new label
- don't fool yourself that having studio interests is any way different than having "product placement" -- both scenarios can compromise the artistic integrity of a movie...but both scenarios can also be collaborative, supportive endeavours. Heck if one advertiser is a problem, there is another brand of beer, or jeans, or dish soap that might be happy to be part of your uber-hit movie.
- product placement is solidly embedded in movies of all sorts right now as it is.
So there's the money. Potentially more money for filmmakers and producers than was ever imaginable under the studio system. Take TV for example. All those ad dollars -- billions of them -- are going to the networks/studios who then trickle down a tiny portion of the money as pay to the writers, directors, producers, etc. In a pull-driven world, the ad money goes straight into the pockets of producers and filmmakers. You're cutting out the most expensive, and most useless middle man in the entire food chain.
We're in a painful transition, that I believe artists could win big from in the long run. Or the government will bend to corporate interests and the INternet will be shut down and controlled and you won't be able to share movies with anyone, not even the ones you made yourself!
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Batutta
Major Contributor
I'm betting on this outcome, but I'm a sad, cynical old bastard...Net neutrality anyone?
adkimery
Veteran
First off, "intelligent story" and "Metal Gear Solid" should never be used in the same sentence. :tongue: Second, while many games are becoming more cinematic (partly due to a greater focus on story) video games and cinema serve very different entertainment needs. I don't see a day when six of your friends will come over for some dinner, wine and to watch you play Mass Effect 2 for three hours on a Sat night. Also, the long, frequent cut scenes in MGS4 is a very common criticism of the game. People want to *play* games and *watch* movies. While there may be more cross over elements appearing in the future I don't see the two merging into one, unified form of entertainment.
-A