HPX170 vs. EX3 vs. XL-H1 - need new camera

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Willis Chung

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Ok so, I'm selling my HVX200, I understand the best solution for upgrade is the HPX500, but let's leave that option out considering the additional costs that adds up.

I need a new camera to continue future productions. So my question is, should I wait for the HPX170 that's releasing on September, and just rent HVXs in the Summer?

Get an EX1 or EX3 and get the high resolution, but deal with the rolling shutter + jello vision effect?

or

Get the Canon XL-H1 that a relay is getting developed now, "with" the upcoming "nanoflash" to capture on solid state CF uncompressed 1080p?


Thanks in advance for opinions...
 
What's your price point?

HPX170 will be about $5200-ish.

EX1 is $6500-ish.

EX3 is $8300-ish.

XL-H1 is $9000-ish; there's a new XL-H1A that I think is $6000-ish.

That's a pretty huge budget range, you're talking about around 40% more for one versus another. Plus, there's the HMC150 which should be ~$4000-ish, less than half the cost of the XL-H1.

So -- what do you shoot, what do you need that the HVX200 doesn't have, and how soon?
 
Some guy is taking the camera & firestore for $5500 within 2 weeks, i figured if i wait another 2 months, i can't even sell for $4000 (cam alone). My budget is $10k, and I've got my adapter, lenses, batteries, and full support system already.

As for Canon XLH1, I'll probably get the generation we live in now and not the newer models coming soon... not much added bonus. I think i spotted a few deals for $4500-$5500. Adding maybe 2 or 3k w/ nanoflash to that, doesn't sound too bad. Understanding that nanoflash doesn't arrive until September, shooting HD Tape until then is a sacrifice that's ok for us. Also, recording to both CF+Tape seems safe, able to archive the tapes for backup.

When I can, I shoot narratives, been shooting some music videos + commercials recently though. We are working on experimental narratives right now, but yea, it's everything an HVX can do, but I was hoping to have the option of HD-SDI available for monitoring + nanoflash-ing.

How soon? well, in two weeks I suppose. Therefore if the verdict is the 170, I might need to be rent HVX's for a while.

EX1(3) im thinking if I might regret it due to the handheld action narratives we have been shooting recently.

Your opinions? Thanks =)
 
If you rent an HVX for a while wouldn't you be cutting into any profits you make be selling the camera now as opposed to later?
 
Seems like 4 totally different options. I'm not a big fan of the lens options from Canon, which makes the interchangeable lens feature semi useless in my opinion.

I didn't like the EX1 at first, the idea of another memory format being in the wild seemed like reinventing the wheel, but the footage that has been coming off of that thing seems to be fantastic.

I haven't looked much into the EX3 yet, but it seems like a very good all round camera.

Same deal with the HPX170, I'll wait till its on the market to comment.

Overall, I'd probably go with an EX1. Just seems like a nice, solid camera, for a decent price.
 
EX3 is going for $8300? Waaay down from the $13k I was originally hearing. Is that body only for that price? I'd love to grab one with a relay. If someone could build a relay for that camera and keep total cost right at or just above $10k you've got a slick cam package ready.
 
well the relay is ~4.5k from Letus, supposed to be releasing any day now. Reason to use Canon would be to get a specific relay with a 35mm adapter for it as well, as opposed to actually using their XL Lenses.

Anybody have knowledge about noise comparison and their own 24fps comparison look?

Thanks,
 
if you are doing sd stuff (music videos, commercials) why move from the HVX? ok now that is out of the way, all cameras are having certain +'s, as of right now, a TUNED ex1 can get around alot of the jello vision and rolling shutter issues, like I said TUNED, you must get to know the EX1 in and out before attempting to counter flashes, and crazy spiining but it can be for the most part concerd if needs be, as of right now, EX1 is on top, get it with the july rebate, your good then with 1080p (if thats what you needed) and all the other crap that goes along with it. I have found using a 200a and a ex1 that the ex1 still has a less noisy image in light and dark images. Berry might step in and beg a differ... opinion only...


Jon
 
All can deliver a 24p look. Although the XLH1 will do it via 24f mode, but it should look the same. The HPX170 and EX1/EX3 should have better noise characteristics than the XLH1.
 
As an XL-H1 owner and my partner owning an EX1, I have a lot of experience with both cameras.

I think the XL is a fantastic camera, and with the Flash recorder combined with a 35mm adapter, will produce fantastic, clean images.

I have done uncompressed capture shoots with the camera before, and it comes out fantastic. If you'd like, email me and I can try to forward you some RAW clips of the XLH1 w/mini35/uncompressed capture, so you can get an idea of the image capabilities of the camera.
 
24F is not cool. It is still not supported by Avid, so if you ever need to take that footage into Avid that could be a problem.

EX cams are super sharp, but metadata implementation alone makes p2 the standout in solid state acquisition.

I would save some cash and get the 170 hold on to the extra money for another 18-24 months and pick up a scarlet to go with your hpx.
 
jason.adams said:
24F is not cool. It is still not supported by Avid, so if you ever need to take that footage into Avid that could be a problem.
Click to expand...


I dissagree. 24F is quite good (and cool :)). Many Canon users shoot in this mode and can produce a very pleasing, filmatic look if used correctly. The fact that Avid can't support it is important information to keep in mind. However, there are plenty of other NLE's that do support 24F. Vegas Pro 8, Premier Pro 2 - CS3, SpeedEdit, to name just a few.
 
It's not uncompressed. The nanoFlash records to CF Cards in MPEG2 format. A Sony Codec that's optional Long-GOP or IFrame at high bitrates, 4:2:2 and it costs 3499.99.

The XDR will have upgraded ability to stripe 4 high speed high capacity CF cards for uncompresed. That unit costs about 5k or 6k.
 
Mike Galvan,
I would love to see some uncompressed mini35 raw clips off of your XL, is it possible you upload somewhere I can download from?

I just got off the phone with a n XHA1 user, he claims it's noisier than the older generation HVX.... thoughts?
 
Price-performance wise the EX1 is the pick of that bunch. However I really don't think it's worthwhile selling your HVX just for the improvements the EX1 offers. If you're going to trade up from the HVX I'd recommend doing it to a camera that offers substantially more, rather than just-a-bit.

That leaves you with two options really, the EX3 (which has the exact same imaging system as the EX1, but a FAR superior form-factor - a straight rip-off of Canon's XL range), and the HPX-500 - both of which are a decent step up from your HVX.

Also eventually adding something like the Convergent Designs' Flash XDR to your camera will open up a lot more options in terms of image quality (with the EX3 at least).

Hope that helps.
 
weixiang623 said:
Mike Galvan,
I would love to see some uncompressed mini35 raw clips off of your XL, is it possible you upload somewhere I can download from?

I just got off the phone with a n XHA1 user, he claims it's noisier than the older generation HVX.... thoughts?
Click to expand...

Let me check with the director, but I will post the film of the XLH1/mini35/Zeiss Superspeed Cineprimes/Uncompressed capture tonight for you.
 
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