Need Field Recorder Priority Advice From Phil And The Other Salty Dogs Here...

SouthBySoWhat

SouthBySoWhat

Well-known member
Hi all,

I'm finally reaching the end of phase 1 (shotgun, wireless, mixer, poles, cables, bag, hypers, windshields, etc) of putting a modest yet professional location package together and since I'm not made of money I could use a bit of advice about field recorders. I imagine I will be starting out doing low-no budg indie work and low-end corporate-type work. I've read a good many threads here, but I could use a little sage advice.

Based on previous experience, what sub $2000 device/method do you all use or think is most useful/critical for a broad range of applications:
  • 2-track CF/DAT/HDD recorder (no TC)
  • 2-track CF/HDD/DAT recorder (TC)
  • 4-track CF/HDD recorder (no TC)
  • 4-track CF/HDD recorder (TC)
  • Boom Recorder SW with A/D interface/mixer (like the Alesis FW series)
I already have an ol' Apple iBook which could be a dedicated recording laptop. I also already own an M-audio MicroTrack. The Tascam HDP2 looks like the right device, but as it's been out for a while now, is there a competitor with similiar price and specs out there now?

I suppose the crux of my question is; is it more important priority-wise to have a bag-based 2-track (w/TC) run-n-gun recording solution than a cart-oriented multitrack solution (ie Boom Recorder)? I plan to eventually have both, of course.

Any and all input welcome!

Thx,

Sean
 
In my experience, a bag-based recorder is the norm for lower budget and in the years I've been production mixing there have been few jobs where the relative immobility of recording to a computer would have been possible or practical, logistically speaking. I'm talking about student films, shorts, low budget features, corporate and reality.

My first production recorder (not counting the DAT machines I had in the 80's), the FR-2, had timecode and I've never regretted that. On the contrary, I would have most certainly regretted not having timecode even from my very early production jobs.

Opinions will certainly vary, but in my experience the portability and practicality of a bag-based, timecode capable recorder outweighed the need for more tracks. Yes, I would like and will have more tracks, but I've survived without them for a long time, whereas I would not have survived without those other options. It's worth keeping in mind that Sopranos was a two-track show until nearly the end and multi-track recording is a relatively new thing.

If you can go up to $2500 you can get the Sound Devices 702T, an outstanding machine. However, if the timecode card in the Tascam is good and you put a quiet mixer in front of, it could be a good value. If you know of a professional 4-track CF/HDD, TC capable machine under $2K I'd like to hear about it.

SFX


SouthBySoWhat said:
Hi all,

I'm finally reaching the end of phase 1 (shotgun, wireless, mixer, poles, cables, bag, hypers, windshields, etc) of putting a modest yet professional location package together and since I'm not made of money I could use a bit of advice about field recorders. I imagine I will be starting out doing low-no budg indie work and low-end corporate-type work. I've read a good many threads here, but I could use a little sage advice.

Based on previous experience, what sub $2000 device/method do you all use or think is most useful/critical for a broad range of applications:
  • 2-track CF/DAT/HDD recorder (no TC)
  • 2-track CF/HDD/DAT recorder (TC)
  • 4-track CF/HDD recorder (no TC)
  • 4-track CF/HDD recorder (TC)
  • Boom Recorder SW with A/D interface/mixer (like the Alesis FW series)
I already have an ol' Apple iBook which could be a dedicated recording laptop. I also already own an M-audio MicroTrack. The Tascam HDP2 looks like the right device, but as it's been out for a while now, is there a competitor with similiar price and specs out there now?

I suppose the crux of my question is; is it more important priority-wise to have a bag-based 2-track (w/TC) run-n-gun recording solution than a cart-oriented multitrack solution (ie Boom Recorder)? I plan to eventually have both, of course.

Any and all input welcome!

Thx,

Sean
Click to expand...
 
I would start out with a good bag-based 2-track rig. I can't think of a professional Recorder with TC that is under $2000. I would save up some more money and get a SD 702T. In the mean time run the Tascam HDP2. That would be a good place to start.
 
I find most low budget non-broadcast projects always THINK that they are going to record using double system sound. We record it and then in the rush of editing, deadlines and the extra time and effort of conforming the recorder sound to the video track, often the producers wimp out and just use the camera audio.

Maybe it's just me but it has happened on two pilots I worked on and on a couple of low budget ($300-$500k) indies. It cracks me up, go through all of the trouble and extra expense of dual system sound, then don't use it in post.

Maybe it's just me and some of the weird people I have worked with or maybe it's more commonplace? Any sound mixers here want to comment on this? Does it ever happen to you? Unless you have a specific project that will pay for it, I would just rent something kick ass like a 744t or better yet the sweet new 788t. When I am producing, if I care about dual system sound, the guys I hire always have Devas anyway, it's usually either all or nothing.

Dan
 
I appreciate the responses.

If you can go up to $2500 you can get the Sound Devices 702T, an outstanding machine. However, if the timecode card in the Tascam is good and you put a quiet mixer in front of, it could be a good value. If you know of a professional 4-track CF/HDD, TC capable machine under $2K I'd like to hear about it.

The Edirol R4-PRO is the closest sub $2000 4 channel TC solution I'm aware of.

In the mean time run the Tascam HDP2. That would be a good place to start.

Thanks, that will probably be the solution for now.

I would just rent something kick ass like a 744t or better yet the sweet new 788t.

Renting is an oft-overlooked solution that's worth considering for the more foo-foo gigs.
 
Ive been using the Edirol R-4 (not the pro) and I've had some good results. the pre-amps are a little noisy, and I needed to get a portable DVD player to power the unit in the field, but Ive had good results recording to four tracks.
 
SBSW,

I think the real answer lies in what type of work you're looking to do as you move forward. I have done lots of low budget, student types of projects using Boom Recorder without problem. I also have the Tascam HD-P2 and usually roll it as a back up to Boom Recorder. (And I got the Tascam before BR). I'd say start with the Tascam, and then as your needs increase, add on Boom Recorder. There are some limitations, but in general, it's a solid way to start, and cost effective (my favorite words when it comes to sound equipment). Don't forget that you will need an external TC generator if you want to jam multiple devices, since you cannot jam from the HD-P2. Look for a good, used, Denecke TC slate (TS2-SB). That gives you a reliable TC source, and a slate (yes, I know you can clap your hands in front of the camera, but that isn't really professional). I think the 702T is a waste of money, at this point. IMO, it is not 2.5 times better than the HD-P2 (cost basis vs. features/function/quality). The Edirol's have not gotten good reviews, but I have no hands-on experience with them.

HTH,

Phil
 
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Phil. I realize these types of questions are hard to answer when you don't know the askers usage intentions fully.
 
robmneilson said:
Ive been using the Edirol R-4 (not the pro) and I've had some good results. the pre-amps are a little noisy, and I needed to get a portable DVD player to power the unit in the field, but Ive had good results recording to four tracks.
Click to expand...

Which mixer are you feeding the R-4 with?
 
I'm not currently using it with a mixer....it frees up cables from the camera (which makes me happy).

I was using a Shure FP33 mixer to shoot with, but with the production I'm working on we really need to be able to record four separate tracks with three lav tracks for the actors and one track for the boom.

It was the cheapest 4 track recorder I can find, and so far its worked well. The pro is a nice upgrade and I think its worth the money. its not perfect, but for less than $2k your not going to find something without drawbacks.
 
I haven't had any battery life problems with the HD-P2, but I use a BDS with a Li-ion battery. I run the HD-P2 and my 302 and have never even had the battery go below half in a full day's work.

Phil
 
i would go with whichever Sound Devices 7 series recorder fits your needs and your budget!

i love my 744t and i had an indie feature where they had already bought a deva V but i used the 744t...

i also had the deva V for six months and i never used it once other than to play around with it some.

other than some of the extremely flexible routing options it offered, i saw nothing that i couldn't do on my 744t and i couldn't wait to return the deva v to them!

Sound Devices build very nice solid, affordable and reliable products.

i use a sound devices 442 and the 744t.

i would like a little bit more flexibility on how i mix/send sound from the mixer to the camera and/or the recorder, but when they built the 442 mixer they hadn't even dreamed of doing any type of recorder.

i believe they will be releasing a new mixer now that they have released the new 7 series recorder.

i might be tempted to trade-up to another SD mixer as long as it works as well as the 442 and just gives me a few more choices on what goes where etc.

matthew
 
obi1jacobi said:
I've had a ton of experience with the Tascam HD and it's a fine piece of equipment, but atrocious on battery life. I've been thinking for myself (as far as the double system but without a mixer route) that I might want to try the Marantz version. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=375523&is=REG
Click to expand...


That's funny, I have the Marantz PMD 671 and was thinking of switching to an Upgraded Tascam. Battery life is OK on the Marantz but I'm going to have the units Preamps upgraded, they're too noisy. The line in is fine when using a mixer, though it could be a little hotter. Also, I find the Marantz menu a little frustrating at times. I love the size and light weight, also, putting the flash card into the computer directly from the recorder is absolutely easy and a dream come true.

Get your new Marantz or Tascam recorder from Oade Brothers, they upgrade the units for $250 and bring them up to true pro standards. They are the only pro game around unless you go with SD or better.

I suggest: 1. an Oade brothers modified Tascam HD-P2 recorder or, 2. an Oade modified Marantz PMD 671. For non mixer work these modified recorders are the only units suitable for recording directly because their stock preamps are too noisy for serious recording.

If anyone is doing cart work [it will need power, but so do the lights] I'd seriously look at a laptop and a 8 channel interface such as the Presonus or Mackie firewire unit. You can record 8 channels & burn discs in the field as well as back up to external Hard drives, and surf the WEB when your bored, besides actually working immediately on dialoge editing ... :)
 
10s is right about Doug Oade and their upgrades. I have a HD-P2 with the super upgrade and have put it up to the DV 702 using sennheiser mics and both were very equal. My buddy is a audio engineer and owns the DV702 and has done a ton of recording with it. We both were surprised and pleased with the comparisons. We both like each recorder better depending on which mic was used. But they were so close it was a toss up between them and it has timecode in.
 
ptalsky said:
I haven't had any battery life problems with the HD-P2, but I use a BDS with a Li-ion battery. I run the HD-P2 and my 302 and have never even had the battery go below half in a full day's work.

Phil
Click to expand...

Indeed the key is in the BDS Li-ion battery. I've always had to resort to 8 double A batteries. Oh the horror.

So yes, don't listen to me. Listen to Phil!
 
Just an update...

I went with a brand new Tascam off eBay for $750 and I really like it. A nice piece of gear. Tests with my 416 and EMW lavs impressed me greatly. I might mod it up down the road, however. The only cons are the bulk and a sort of plasticky-feel, but for the buck it's got a lot of bang.

I wish I had a slate or blackburst box to play around with the timecode stuff further.

Thanks again for the opinions, everyone!

Hmmm, now what to do with the IRS rebate............... :evil:
 
For the past few years I have been using the Fostex FR-2 but I'm just about to upgrade to the new Nagra VI. This is a 6-track machine of superb quality; but, I guess, is likely to sell for around $6,000.

However, the new Nagra LB is a 2-channel unit and is likely to be around $3,000 (I may even get one of these as well).

These are my top choices.

A step down you get to the FR-2 I mentioned above and the Tascam HD-P2.

I hope this helps.
 
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