have some gear...getting more. priorities?

T

tchandler

Member
i'm shooting a low-budget, labor-of-love hybrid narrative/verite-doc this summer. some INT some EXT and some very EXT (on a river, on boats). my dp is shooting on an hvx200 and i'll have a fairly competent sound person (not a full-on pro, and one who does not have their own gear) and an intern or two.

i've been doing doc work for some years, so have some sound gear already that i can possibly use:

-me66
-rycote softie for me66
-at1800 series with transmitter for lav (but no mic)
-plenty of cable
-rolls pm50 personal monitor amp
-boom pole
-marantz pm660 (probably for grabbing wild sound, field recording, sound design)
- a bunch of small and large diaphragm studio condenser mics and a decent stereo mic (mostly i use these in a different setting, recording music in the studio...but perhaps they could be useful)


my plan for shooting is to primarily boom everything-- wired when possible, wireless when not. there may be an occasion where it's appropriate to use a lav mic instead of or addition to the boom, but i think that will rarely happen.

so, i'm getting all kinds of suggestions on what else i should be using and am feeling a little overwhelmed. i'm on a budget (out of pocket) and would like to make use of the gear i already have. i can probably spend an additional $2000 on audio gear, if it's needed.

suggestions from colleagues have been:

-sanken cs1 (with rycote blimp/softie/pistol grip)
(is it really that much better than the me66...if i already have the 66?)
-an me67 capsule for the sennheiser shotgun
-countryman b3 for the at1800 as well as a plug-in transmitter for the shotgun
-sennheiser g2 package that includes a plug-in transmitter (and a crappy lav)...use the g2 for the shotgun and buy a nice lav for the AT1800
-a field mixer

i know the stuff that i'm working with is pretty low-mid range and that there's no single best set-up. but if people have suggestions on how i can maximize and supplement the gear i already have i'd really appreciate it.

best.
tchandler
 
Hi Tchandler:

You already have some usable gear so I would look to just supplement what you have. I have some reading for you to do so that you can discover which mics sound best to your ears, rather than relying on the recommendations of strangers. I am a big believer in you using your ears and making up your mind about what sounds good to you. To just buy what a bunch of random people tell you to buy means that you may not be satisfied with your purchases.

To audition shotguns and cardioid variants http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

To audition lavalier microphones http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

To learn more about location sound in general http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html

Use your ears and make up your own choices!

Enjoy!

Dan
 
sped on used mixer , even small sd mix pre
sell the me 66 and buy at-4073 instead , ktek zeppeline for extiriors or ktek softie , add aditional transmitter if you feel you ned more then 1
camera /mixer snake
dont know if you have good boom but something as 9-12 feet is what usilly on docs .
change the lavalier for something at least as emw or b-3
check for small diaphragma hyper if you dont have one , cardioid , may work as well on quit locations , add goos suspention for that one and foam
 
thanks

thanks

thanks oleg and dan. that's helpful.

i'm going to sell the me66 and buy a mic that sounds better to my ears-- likely either the sanken cs1 or the at-4073.

add the sd mixpre for a basic mixer (i'm assuming that even the preamps on this sound better than what's on the hvx200...do people think this is true?).

rycote...ktek...i don't know. i'll read up more-- i do know we'll be shooting a lot on boats moving down a river, so at times it's going to be pretty windy.

thx again for the responses.
tchandler
 
tchandler said:
thanks oleg and dan. that's helpful.

i'm going to sell the me66 and buy a mic that sounds better to my ears-- likely either the sanken cs1 or the at-4073.

add the sd mixpre for a basic mixer (i'm assuming that even the preamps on this sound better than what's on the hvx200...do people think this is true?).

rycote...ktek...i don't know. i'll read up more-- i do know we'll be shooting a lot on boats moving down a river, so at times it's going to be pretty windy.

thx again for the responses.
tchandler
Click to expand...

Err... yeah... nearly any reputable mixer will have far better settings than most any camera. MixPre certainly. I know few people disappointed or unhappy with their SD MixPre except they love their SD 302 better. And even then they still keep their MixPre for various reasons! (Boom op, hook up to 302 for basically 502) I don't see a MixPre as a bad investment at all! (unless you can afford the 302 =D

But for your purposes MixPre heh is fantastic.
 
CS1 is not really worth the money over the 4073. You can easily find a used 416 at the price of the CS1. The CS1 occupies a non-man's land of price v quality for new gear.

Mixpre is a good basic preamp but will leave you helpless most of the time you need to go wireless. 95% of the time you need to break out the wireless you need two and will probably want the boom (YMMV). The 302 will allow you to rent or buy wireless when the situations present themselves without having to rent a mixer too.

No need to waste the extra money on the Rycote when the Ktek is more then adequate.

You will also want a breakaway cable that can be found or custom made for around $200.

Overall your best bet is to have your competent sound guy examine what you are trying to shoot and pick out the best choices that will fit your needs and budget.

Cheers
 
thats not really if the camera preamp worse or better or equal , its about normal work flow where the sound guy rule the sound and not the dp which have no clew or time or attention for what coming to your camera .
as wabit pointed , the cs-1 not really worth the effort .
 
thank you all for the input on the cs-1. i'm still going to give a listen to it, but it seems like one of the AT's might do the trick.

in terms of the mixpre, why would it be not possible to use it with the AT 1800 wireless kit that i have? not always, but in times when it's really needed couldn't i hook up the plug-in transmitter to the mixer and have it transmit signal to the receiver on the camera end? i think i've read posts here where people are writing about doing that.
 
it is possible ,, it is possible for 1800 and boom , it is not possible wire 2 1800 and boom
it possible , you wll need to pad down to mic level as that what the tarnsmitter could have as the mixer only output line level .
also you can use your 1800 transmitter as alink with the camera from the mix pre 9 not sure it can get line as well , if not 2 resistors in the input cable , or premade from at would doit
 
The CS-1 is a much better microphone than the ME 66 and it's a better cross over than the AT 4073, sharper rejection and better sound on interiors, it's smaller than both microphones what is great for boom work. It's not better than the 416 if you never need to use an on camera microphone.
 
Oleg 2 said:
thats not really if the camera preamp worse or better or equal , its about normal work flow where the sound guy rule the sound and not the dp which have no clew or time or attention for what coming to your camera .
as wabit pointed , the cs-1 not really worth the effort .
Click to expand...

Very true... but, that said, the SD pres indeed sound a lot batter than the camera pres!
 
I would look for a recorder with better preamps than the marantz PMD660. You want your signal to be rich & noise free. You might look into the Fostex FR-2LE as a low cost recorder. I have no experience with this model but Fostex's higher priced units are nice; maybe it rubbed off on this model. If so, then it could work for a dual system setup. Something to consider.
 
interesting thoughts.

i just found a friend who has the cs1-- so i'm going to buy the 4073 and compare the two in the field.

i'm buying a used mixpre.

as far as the marantz660...running a dual system is going to be too much for us to handle. the marantz is really just for doing wild sound, ambient, field recording type stuff that i can lay in later if i want to. it's like an extra tool in the toolbox, but not something i plan on using as a primary recording device.

thanks again all.
 
tchandler said:
interesting thoughts.

i just found a friend who has the cs1-- so i'm going to buy the 4073 and compare the two in the field.
Click to expand...

Tchandler:

Did you listen to the samples I recorded with the two mics? Same voice, same locations, recorder, cables, mounts. You should be able to hear the apparent differences right off, I know I do. If you buy the 4073 and decide to dump it because you like the CS-1 better, you will lose probably at least a hundred bucks or more.

Listen for sibilance on both mics. The 4073 is a little thinner sounding and to my ear, the CS-1 enhanced sibiliance a bit. Listen on real monitors, not computer speakers. These .mp3s are good enough quality to hear the differences.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

Dan
 
tchandler said:
in terms of the mixpre, why would it be not possible to use it with the AT 1800 wireless kit that i have? not always, but in times when it's really needed couldn't i hook up the plug-in transmitter to the mixer and have it transmit signal to the receiver on the camera end? i think i've read posts here where people are writing about doing that.
Click to expand...


Poor choice of words on my part. You can of course use wireless with the Mixpre, my point was that only 2 channels is generally a problem in situations where you need wireless. If you have two people on wireless and a boom then you will need 3 channels. If you don't foresee this being an issue for you then go for it. If you do then a better choice in that price range would be a used Shure FP33 mixer.

You will need to pad the signal if you are sending wireless from the Mixpre and unless you expect your camera man to also be in charge of monitoring the sound you will need a return send via wireless to monitor your signal. Ideally you will want to be recording a backup on your PM660 for when the wireless fail.

Cheers
 
dan, i did listen to your samples on my monitors and hear what you're talking about. i'm going to try them both out before buying.

wabbit, i totally didn't consider a couple of things you've explained. and now i'm a little unsure. first, i'll only be using one channel of the mixer for the most part, and never more than two, which is why i got the mixpre. my questions are as these: first, how would i pad the signal when sending to the camera via wireless? and second do you have any suggestions about how to rig up a return send via wireless when i only have one wireless system?

thank you...as someone brand new to this community i'm really amazed and grateful that people are so helpful.
 
Why do you want send wireless feed from your mixer , make it only as the last resort ,
you can pad with 2 resistors in line to go rom balnce xlr out
or from unbalance line level -10 dbv out different value ) .
if you buy g-2 it can acssept line , so you will need only the cable
to hear return wireless , you will need another wierless and hook e hadphones out to the tx on camera , sending the feed to the mix pre return
check if at - drive line out if , not , it is not possible with audio technica
if you use g-2 , calibrate the out for line level on reciever out .
or just forget and tell your dp get attention to incoming sound and say he have problems :-)
 
cool oleg, thx.

wireless will be more of last resort, but i can already foresee one particular location where we're going to need it so i want to test and prepare before hand.

i don't have a g2 system, but an older AT1800 system (not the new dual channel). the last option seems the easiest...have my dp also monitor sound and she can let the sound person know if she's having a problem. not ideal, or totally pro but simple and effective (and this is a shoestring operation).
 
If you are in a situation where you 'need' to go wireless then generally your camera person is going to have a lot of things to be concentrating on and headphones and monitoring sound is putting even more on their plate.

It is do-able but difficult and risky.

A cheap alternative is to get some used Comteks with multiple receivers, then you can monitor audio too. I believe a fellow DVXuser, Phil, was selling some not to long ago.

Again, if you have to go this route use your recorder as a backup.

Good luck
 
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