Redrock M2 + HVX200 + sigma 15-30, very bad :(

S

Sampsa

Member
Here is a sample clip to demonstrate the problem. This is shot with
HVX200, M2 and 15-30mm sigma, with aperture at 8. Main issue is the
visibility of the rotating disc and the other problem is huge round moving
light from the sun.
The visibility of the disc and its grain makes this shot useless :(
http://www.2d.fi/M2/redrock_trouble.mov
 
Thats really strange.. I've never seen anything like that before. Other than that the shot looks good though :thumbup:. What scene settings did you use for that?
 
this is the reason why blue skies are evil... i've done extensive testing and the grain shows up on anything below f/4 on my sgpro... super wide lenses might make it worse?
i can't explain the crazy flashing circle??? maybe it's a shutter speed/frame rate issue mixed with an out of aligned disk?
from memory m2's are known for not being well alined..

the white vertical line is the ccd overloading though :)
 
I have noticed that on redrock the disk get out of alignment way too often, causin the picture to "bounce". the speed of the flashing circlevaries depending on the shutter speed. But the visibility of the ground class is the worst thing, I have noticed that it does not matter what lens you use when you have the sky or something smooth on the background you will get it...

I got fed up with redrock because of all the bugs, tiny scratches on every lens (When I got my redrock the macro lens had tiny scratches out of the box and also the lenses on the mounts had tiny scrathes), and the splended tech support, post all these problems to our forum and somebody might help you.

That is why I ordered SGpro yesterday.

I love the white line, that is something you always love, it is not a bug, it is a
feature :D
 
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the scene file step up was pretty much standard, only thing I altered was master ped to -7, if I recall correctly :)
 
Sampsa, that's too bad that you've had so much trouble with your M2, I haven't noticed anything that bothers me yet. Although I don't have time right now to use it as much as I'd like to, the only set back as far as I'm concerned is the light loss, which really isn't exceptionally bad. But other than that I'm lovin my M2
 
It looks like you need to change your batteries. You should never be able to see the ground glass pattern in a spinning adapter. I doubt the shutter is your problem. I have been on the short end of this ACing with the sgpro.

The widest lens I have used on a spinning adapter is a 24 F/2.8, but I have never seen anything that crude.
 
That's wrong. shutter is a problem along with how far you're stopped down. It depends on the adapter.
 
The wobbling sun halo is caused by wobble of the ground glass. In addition to the halo effect it will cause a pulsing softness, not a jumping image as stated above. To cure it you'll need a $10 caliper from Home Depot or Lowes:
  1. Open the Micro35
  2. Using the caliper, adjust (play with) the ground glass until you remove all of the wobble. The screws must be tight or centrifugal forces will push it out of true when you pan.
  3. Put the Micro35 back together
  4. Check infinity focus.
  5. Repeat if the focus is not right
Once I set mine properly it hasn't moved since, and I pan and bump it a good bit.

The rotational streaking is probably caused by errant light hitting the GG from the side and lighting it up. All adapters would exhibit some kind of artifact in this situation. An ND filter on the front of the lens would help a lot. You can get a simple Cokin setup or a full on Mattebox.

The battery LED on the Micro35 is not a good measure of the battery's voltage. Carry extra batteries and a tester, replace them often...

One question: why use an adapter at all if you are stopping the lens down that far anyway? Kind of pointless if you're not limiting the DoF.

Bob
 
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I am getting the rotating streaks with every on any set if i just get a solid enough surface with right colour/contrast for the shot. It fell like the glass is nor smooth enough. The streaks are more visible on the wide angle shots since there is usually a lot of sky in them.

I have noticed that on some shots, eventhough I am using a tripod and not moving the camera at all I get the pulsing softness, and the next time I do not get it.

>One question: why use an adapter at all if you are stopping the lens down that far anyway? Kind of pointless if you're not limiting the DoF.

How else are you going to get a very wide lens on a camcorder without barrel distortion?
 
Very wide lenses will always have barrel distortion, as your clip shows. I suppose a 35mm lens may do a better job than the built in lens...

Another approach would be to use a software correction tool: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/. You could shoot the camera's lens (and even add a wide angle lens), export the footage as a series of images, run the PT Lens software, and import the images back into your NLE.

Bob
 
http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1074&IID=5875

There is what happens if you attach a very wide angle to camera directly. Compare this barrel distortion to one in my shot (barrel distortion on my shot is barely visible and does not need correcting). That is why I am using the 35mm adapter.

Another thing that I do not understand on your comment is the nd filter, I already have problems with getting enough light, so why make my life even harder with a nd filter, that you can not even attach on a 15mm due to the such wide angle of view.

I too a look at the earlier shots done with M2 and apparent on every shot that I have snow in I can see the round glass spinning, especially after color correction it pops out. So lets if SGpros round glass better build and smootner.
 
A fisheye lens is designed to bend light for artistic reasons. The 6. lens from the same company would probably fit your needs and be easier to manage on a shoot.

How can you be having trouble getting enough light in broad daylight / snow situation? That's enough light to blind most people. What is your shutter set to?
 
Fisheye on a camcorder bends the light bacause it is too expensive to build that wide of a lens that does not bend the picture.
I get a much wider picture with m2 and 15mm than with that 0.6 that is pretty much useless. I have had it. Actually I have had quite a bunch of century lenses on my previous cams and get the best results with m2 and 15mm.

lets see, the shutter, about the light over there, I took some fremes with 5d and used 100 iso rating, F5.6 and 1/1000
And on sigma I used F8, you can do the math...
 
If you are using 1/1000s on your HVX then that is the problem. The GG is designed around much slower shutter speeds, meaning the texture of the GG must 'smear' much more than the 1/1000s shutter speed lets it. Not sure how the vibrating design would work with such a fast shutter speed, it might look very grainy as all moving ground glasses are designed to smear.

Going back to my original response I'd recommend you put one or more ND filters in front of the lens, Iris down to at least 4.0 on the camera, and possibly engage one of the internal ND filters. On my rig with a good 9V battery I see streaking on shutter speeds slower than 1/60s, so that's probably a practical limit.

Spinning the GG faster might also be an approach, but you would have to spin it ten times faster just to get to 1/600s, which would actually be pretty dangerous.

Bob
 
I used 1/500 shutter and the slowest I could go for is 1/250.

About he ND in front of the 15mm, it can not be done, what part is so hard for to understand about it!

I will never use the on camera nd because it is a piece of shi*, if I want to use nd I can put the nd between redrock and camcorder.

and I do not need your advices about shooting and do not want hear how well your rig works that does not help me solve the problem with the poor quolity of the round glass.

Man I hate these forums because of guys like you :(

I will test the SGpro next week and see if it has better quality.
 
i don't think the sgpro will perform much better... sorry.

if you shot f/8 with your 15mm with a shutter of 1/500 on the sgpro. you will most definitely see grain in blue skies.

you could probably get away with 1/500 if you shot at f/2.8 on your 15mm. (you could probably do this on the m2 as well.)

in terms of grain showing up in blue skies, the aperture matters way more than the shutter speed..

the only other thing i could suggest is a "super battery pack". the sgpro takes 2 AA batteries.. but you could rig a custom 4-6 battery pack to give the motor the extra juice it would need to perform better under your circumstances. (again you could also do this with the m2)

but that could burn out your motor... i don't know..
 
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just read that the sigma 15-30 is a f3.5-4.5... meaning you're probably limited to a max shutter of 1/250 if you're lucky. and that's only if you shoot wide open and you're lucky.

godspeed my friend. godspeed.
 
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