M2 with HVX200 And the new micro X flip issues

atlfilmguy

atlfilmguy

Well-known member
I have used the M2 with the HVX200 for about 1.75 years. I am pretty used to it by now and am fairly good at setting it up.

Over the last year or so I have gotten the back focus good enough to limit edge to edge issues but it was still not good enough for me. So I was stoked when the micro X came out. Not because of the flip function of the micro X but because of the improved edge to edge sharpness.

I got it and set it up per the redrock tutorial. And it was MUCH better on edge to edge. It seemed as though it had a larger DOF to play with on the ground glass or something. BUT it did have a new problem. Vignetting.

My old settings were 76 zoom, and 15 focus. Now with the microX it is 91 zoom and 84 focus. I have looked and found that it is within normal range others are getting.
BUT no matter what my zoom is the light falls off with some pretty bad vignetting. I have looked at older footage before the MicroX and it had nowhere near the vignetting.

I wonder if it is the new 55mm Acromat with the 88 stepdown ring? But I can see the vignette change slightly with zoom and when I zoom all the way out I can see the light fall off area on the GG.

I tried to fix it.
I took the back off of the M2 box and took off the cinescreen and moved the GG up a bit (about 2mm) by raising the motor. That seemed to help some just by eye. Then when I put the cinescreen back on I figured I would move it a bit closer to the 35mm lens mount. The vignetting seems better, it is still there and is still worse than before the microX.

I could go back to the way it was before, but I want the microX to work.

Any ideas?
 
I've noticed a little bit of vignetting on mine as well, I adjusted the focal flange and it seemed to help a bit, but otherwise, I just try to find a good combination of the iris setting on the camera and lens until I don't notice any vignetting. Not sure how to get rid of it any other way yet. Although, I haven't had much time to play with it recently. I didn't even notice it until I got my Ikan monitor.
 
Hi guys,

In general users aren't running into vignetting with the microX. Head over to our support forums at redrockmicro.com/forum; email me at access@redrockmicro.com with your username and I'll get you added if you aren't already.

When you're there, post a thread with a picture of your rig, an example of the vignetting and your camera settings. We'll figure out what's going on.

Cheers!
 
Ok So I raised the gg a bit more and it seemed to help even more. I think I will just leave it that way for now.

I did notice that my idea of moving the gg closer to the 35mm lens was a stinker. My foucs was major off. So I moved it back and it was still off the other way (20 feet was infinity, now 5 feet is 20 feet).

So I started the horribly lengthy process of taking the box apart and moving the gg about 1/10th a MM back and forth. It took about 12 hours of work but I now also have my witness marks on my Nikon lenses the same as pulled tape.

Was so hard, but my AC will love it.


Back to the vignetting, I am going to just live with the little bit I have now.
I looked all over the RR forum, no help there. Everyone is so happy with the micro X, noone has vignetting.
 
atlfilmguy said:
Ok So I raised the gg a bit more and it seemed to help even more. I think I will just leave it that way for now.

I did notice that my idea of moving the gg closer to the 35mm lens was a stinker. My foucs was major off. So I moved it back and it was still off the other way (20 feet was infinity, now 5 feet is 20 feet).

So I started the horribly lengthy process of taking the box apart and moving the gg about 1/10th a MM back and forth. It took about 12 hours of work but I now also have my witness marks on my Nikon lenses the same as pulled tape.

Was so hard, but my AC will love it.


Back to the vignetting, I am going to just live with the little bit I have now.
I looked all over the RR forum, no help there. Everyone is so happy with the micro X, noone has vignetting.
Click to expand...

I did some more playing around with my GG and seem to have found a pretty good spot now. I moved the GG almost all the way in, and now my focus is dead on, and I don't get any noticable vignetting with the right aperture settings. If I have my aperture too small I do still get some vignetting, but at that point it's too dark to be a usable image anyway, so I'm happy with it now.

All the tutorials say that it takes forever to get the GG set up, I had mine set in about 45mins, maybe less. I just moved it back little by little, and I didn't screw the cover back on each time, I just tightened the rods back up to hold it in place. I guess I could see that being a problem with the soft mount kit though... The way I have my hard mount set up, I have a rotating 55mm ring in between my achromat and step-down rings, which makes it a breeze to take my adapter on/off.

Hopefully that might help someone who is experiencing some vignetting issues.
 
atlfilmguy,

I asked you to check out the forums so we could get a thread going there to see if we can't get the vignetting handled:

When you're there, post a thread with a picture of your rig, an example of the vignetting and your camera settings. We'll figure out what's going on.
Click to expand...

That information is really helpful in narrowing down possible solutions.

Cheers!
 
andrew, i've posted on the redrock forum but there is less activity than here apparently.
btownproductions, how did you move the GG? you mean vertically? or from back to front? is there an easy way to do that?
i've got vignetting. and the bright circle in the frame, when setting up the microx is not centered with the borders. so i can't have the left and right borders disapearing at the same time when zooming in. do you notice that also?
 
Delaro. There actually are answers to all of your questions on the Redrock forum. I know this because thats how I figured out how to do this. There's is a video tutuorial for both of your questions. I don't have a link handy, but email a mod over on the RedRock forums and ask for a link to the focal flange adjustment video and the MicroX setup video link should have come with your MicroX on a little card. Both videos tell you step by step how to set up your equipment.

EDIT: Sorry, to answer your question a little better.. I personally moved my GG towards my camera, but that may be different for you. The tutorial vid will help you figure out which way to move your GG. And yes, it is pretty simple. On one of my earlier posts on this thread I explained how I did this easier than they suggest in the video.

And for centering the image with your camera, that is simply the horizontal adjustment, which is basically the same as what you needed to do when setting up your M2, but they explain exactly how to do it in the vid, which you should have got a link to with your purchase.
 
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thanx for your help
ok i've been to the tutorial section but i don't really understand what is the focal flange adjustment for. what will be the result if i move the GG toward the cam?

and this is my problem with the centering:
http://www.supralumen.com/circle
the bright circle is centered on the left of the frame (materialized with red).
i know that there is a way to center the dark frame in the image, but is there a way to center the bright circle in the dark frame? my english is poor :) i just want to be sure that you're understanding what is the centering problem i have.
 
What is the bright circle? are you sure its not just a reflection or the light you are looking at? do you even have a lens on your adapter while you're setting it up? if not, you should
 
Andrew,
Thanks for the heads up on the redrock forum.
I was booked the last few days and had no time, I also had no time to report back that my problem is not a big deal anymore.
I adjusted the GG up a bit more and have nailed the flange focal distance and have now gotten a rock solid rig going.

I think that the combination of the raised gg and the exact right Flange has made the difference for me.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Delaro,
I also had issues at first with the gg not going out at the same time, I had to actually move the hvx on the block to the side to make up for the horizontal centering problems I was having. Then I used the new hard mount with the micro x to make final adjustments.

The flange focal distance is to get the best focus and the best performance for your lens. Your lenses were designed to project an image at an exact distance from the rear element (the film plane). So to get the intended maximum lens performance you must find that distance and have the GG (film plane) at that magical distance.

And DON"T even get me started on optimum aperture.:)
 
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btownproductions, i've a lens on the adapter. what i call the "bright circle" is the gradient from very bright at the center of the frame to the darker area outside (creating the vignetting). on this microx video it's noticeable with the sky being very bright and whiter in the center and darker on the sides (at about 25sec) : http://www.vimeo.com/845226
In my case it's not centered.
 
atlfilmguy, what about optimum aperture? ;)
did the flange focal improvment change your vignetting issue or is it not linked? because the sharpness i have is perfect, edge to edge. i just have a problem of vignetting.
when you're speaking about the non centered GG you had, are you speaking about the adapter black frame all around you have to make disappear? because i can center this one by moving the cam. it's the "vignetting" that is not centered in my case. inside the black adapter frame there is more vignetting on the right side and less on the left side. and i made a lot of adjustment on the hard mount without any success. it seems that i can't center the "vignetting".
 
delaro,
The flange focal distance did seem to help my vignetting, probably because of the facts discussed earlier. The test of the correct flange focus is if you can pull a measure tape to a subjective focus that equals your witness marks on the lens barrel. Such as 10 feet.

Yes I am referring to the camera moving to get the gg edges to disappear at the same time.

The fact that your circle of light is on the left is a baffling problem.

I would post on RR forum with pics galore of the box open and looking down the barrel of the adapter from the front etc.


And about optimum aperture.....oh no you didn't!
 
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call me old fashioned, but I think it's ludicrous to think that I payed $2500+ for a piece of equipment and I'm having to crack it open and tinker with delicate parts to get it to perform at its most basic level. More power to you if you have the time to run tests, but I think it's a little ridiculous of Redrock to ask of its customers. And the Redrock forum has been down all day!
 
starwipefilms said:
call me old fashioned, but I think it's ludicrous to think that I payed $2500+ for a piece of equipment and I'm having to crack it open and tinker with delicate parts to get it to perform at its most basic level. More power to you if you have the time to run tests, but I think it's a little ridiculous of Redrock to ask of its customers. And the Redrock forum has been down all day!
Click to expand...

The reason you need to do that is to get the backfocus right and get clear edge-to-edge sharpness, since every camera will be a little bit different, one setting might not work properly for every camera. Mine only took me about 45 minutes, maybe less to set up, and at least now I know it's right on the money, and won't have to be tinkered with again...

EDIT: It will still work at it's basic level out of the box, but your focus distances may be off and you might not have the best edge sharpnes without adjusting the focal flange distance
 
I've gotta say I'm with starwipe on this and its my current beef on the forum. I encourgae complaining about this.

There's no excuse for so many adapters (and its not just redrock) to have the backfocus flange focal distance off. You don't buy cameras with the flange focal distance miles off and you shouldn't have to fix it with vague methods like adjusting it so your footage markings are correct at 10' . That may make you close but its not accurate.

I remember when i got my redrock 2 years ago it took me 3 days to iron it out and I don't think I ever got the back focus truly correct. I hope the method is better now than it was then.

lenny levy
 
I can personally say that Redrock has a solution in the works for this and you can expect it to work quite nicely. Backfocus adjustment is a serious pain, though, and when I realized my own adjustment was off (although it looked okay) it was an "eh" moment.

The On-the-fly backfocus adjustment featured on the Ultimate is insane, and you can get it down to exacts in just a few minutes on any mount. Next up for me, Contax Yashica.
 
That's what's baffling about my case - a few users on Redrock said vignetting is most likely caused by an incorrectly set GG, but my focus marks are dead on.

I've also heard the buzz that it may be and HVX issue (slipped CCDs?) I'm shooting with the HVX200-A ...anyone else with the 'A' experiencing problems with the M2?
 
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