Recording Audio of actors who are out of the frame?

[omar_]

When you do reaction shots or singles during a conversation, do you have the other actors respond in that take and record that dialogue. What's your best approach in getting the best audio between actors when everyone is not in the shot at the same time.

I like having the other actor out of frame respond because it keeps the actors motivated but sometimes it can cause problems during editing?

 

[Steve House]

When you do reaction shots or singles during a conversation, do you have the other actors respond in that take and record that dialogue. What's your best approach in getting the best audio between actors when everyone is not in the shot at the same time.

I like having the other actor out of frame respond because it keeps the actors motivated but sometimes it can cause problems during editing?

Why should it cause problems? Just make sure the out of frame actor doesn't step on the lines of the actor on-camera. It's really no different from when both actors are in-frame - you still have to make sure their lines don't bleed on top of each other.

 

[Gohanto]

Why should it cause problems? Just make sure the out of frame actor doesn't step on the lines of the actor on-camera. It's really no different from when both actors are in-frame - you still have to make sure their lines don't bleed on top of each other.

I think the problem he's referring to is since the mics going to be very close during a single, the off camera actor with be noticeably off axis of the mic.

In my experience with this, it's generally best to grab the dialog audio from a difference shot (best option is the matching single of the off camera actor) and replace it. A warning though as I ran into problems editing a short recently, know the coverage beforehand and also consider how much improv is going on. There was one shot of characters talking to someone off screen, and because we didn't get a shot of them, I had to use the off axis sound which sounded distorted. Cutting around improv lines can also be tricky if you have to find reactions or answers from actors where the question was only asked in one set-up. For those situations, a lav might be the best bet if you can't boom between them (which is also harder during improv)

 

[Steve House]

I think the problem he's referring to is since the mics going to be very close during a single, the off camera actor with be noticeably off axis of the mic.

In my experience with this, it's generally best to grab the dialog audio from a difference shot (best option is the matching single of the off camera actor) and replace it. A warning though as I ran into problems editing a short recently, know the coverage beforehand and also consider how much improv is going on. There was one shot of characters talking to someone off screen, and because we didn't get a shot of them, I had to use the off axis sound which sounded distorted. Cutting around improv lines can also be tricky if you have to find reactions or answers from actors where the question was only asked in one set-up. For those situations, a lav might be the best bet if you can't boom between them (which is also harder during improv)

If you anticipate having to use both character's speech as recorded during the same shot, either mic them separately and record iso tracks, or boom the shot same as a 2-shot. Better of course is to make sure the reverses can be intercut. ie, play the same, and use each character's lines from the better of the takes. If you're not going to pick up reverse shots of the off-screen character, at least get an "audio reverse" and record wild tracks of him repeating his side of the conversation. In a doco production where you're covering live non-repeating events so there can be no coverage, ADR might be the answer.

Even with improve, if a question is asked in one setup, shouldn't you make a point of insuring you get the answer in another? Transcription is your friend <grin>. Coverage means the various setups need to be structured so they can be intercut smoothly and for that to happen, even improv needs to have some structure imposed on it.

 

[Gohanto]

Even with improve, if a question is asked in one setup, shouldn't you make a point of insuring you get the answer in another? Transcription is your friend <grin>. Coverage means the various setups need to be structured so they can be intercut smoothly and for that to happen, even improv needs to have some structure imposed on it.

Solid points, and I had words for the director in the editing room looking at the footage after seeing the missing pieces. They were not happy words.

 

[omar_]

2 problems usually occur. Not being able to get good audio from the actor out of frame and having hard time matching audio with reaction shots since the other actor out of frame is talking during the reaction shot which you don't want and it becomes difficult to cut out of the single track while you need consistent background audio. It seems for editing purposes The best is having both actors' dialogue on separate tracks so you can mix it as you like. Its tough either way I'm really finding it difficult to keep the audio consistent in between cuts despite spending a lot of time monitoring audio in the set so I'm curious about all the audio guys' approach on their methods of recording the dialogue and especially keping reverb consistent.

 

[Humanwire]

I try not to have the actors overlap their dialogue whenever possible. They're is literally a pause between their lines that gets merged when edited together. For wide shots you obviously can't do this if you want to use one continuous take.

It also helps to wire each actor with a lav mic, along with a boom. Lav mics do a good job of only picking up what's near them (or picking up more of what's near and less of what's far), and so when the dialogue editor is assembling the dialogue track, he/she can use a balance of all three mics to get the best sound.

 

[ptalsky]

Absolutely no overlaps when shooting singles. This is your responsibility as a director to enforce with your talent. Good, experienced talent will know this already, but if you're dealing with newbies, then be strict. It is important for the off screen actor to understand that this is not his moment, he's there to make the other actor look good (which is a solid rule of improv anyway).

Phil

 

[omar_]

Good call, but do you allow the actor out of frame to continue with the dialogue?

Absolutely no overlaps when shooting singles. This is your responsibility as a director to enforce with your talent. Good, experienced talent will know this already, but if you're dealing with newbies, then be strict. It is important for the off screen actor to understand that this is not his moment, he's there to make the other actor look good (which is a solid rule of improv anyway).

Phil

 

[Steve House]

2 problems usually occur. Not being able to get good audio from the actor out of frame and having hard time matching audio with reaction shots since the other actor out of frame is talking during the reaction shot which you don't want and it becomes difficult to cut out of the single track while you need consistent background audio. It seems for editing purposes The best is having both actors' dialogue on separate tracks so you can mix it as you like. Its tough either way I'm really finding it difficult to keep the audio consistent in between cuts despite spending a lot of time monitoring audio in the set so I'm curious about all the audio guys' approach on their methods of recording the dialogue and especially keping reverb consistent.

The basic reason for recording room tone is to provide a bridge of consistent background sounds over the otherwise silent space resulting from your edits.

 

[omar_]

The basic reason for recording room tone is to provide a bridge of consistent background sounds over the otherwise silent space resulting from your edits.

Even still, depending on the location, room tone changes throughout the shoot which can be problematic since the room tone you have may not match the scene you're trying to fix up.

I think the best thing to do is listen to all the different ambient sounds you hear that's beyond your control on location such as a hum of background conversation, cars passing, etc and make sure you record those ambient sounds in separate takes before you leave to use at your will during editing.

Some times just room tone is not enough.

 

[Humanwire]

Even still, depending on the location, room tone changes throughout the shoot which can be problematic since the room tone you have may not match the scene you're trying to fix up.

I think the best thing to do is listen to all the different ambient sounds you hear that's beyond your control on location such as a hum of background conversation, cars passing, etc and make sure you record those ambient sounds in separate takes before you leave to use at your will during editing.

Some times just room tone is not enough.

Even moving the microphone, such as the boom, just a few inches in any direction from where you were recording it during a take will change the sound of the room tone. I haven't done a lot of production sound so I don't know the best way to record consistent room tone.