wireless hop... signal separation and monitoring questions

S

seanf

Member
I've got a couple newbie questions that I couldn't find answers to doing a search... I have a documentary shoot coming up where I'll be using a Shure FP33 for the first time, with a Sennheiser ME66 on boom and a G2 lav. We're hoping to set up a wireless hop to our HDX900 and keep the boom and lav signals separate, but since this is the first time I've even used a field mixer, I'm a bit in the dark about how this works. We're looking at renting either a Lectrosonics 200 or 400 series setup... will I need two setups to record the two mic signals independently?

Also, I read somewhere on here that an additional wireless setup is needed for monitoring? How would that work?

Sorry if this has been covered before...
 
Sean,

Actually, this hasn't been covered in detail in a while, if at all, so finally a great question.

Ultimately, you will need 3 wireless sets if you go with Lectro - two to send L and R channels to the camera, and one for a return (plugged in to the headphone jack or audio out on the camera). The two sends you will want to be top quality (Lectro 411's or Zaxcom's). The return can be another G2, as it doesn't have to be pristine (especially if the camera op is wearing headphones.)

But, and here's a huge but (not butt, but but). (Okay, no more humor). The ME66 is noisy, the FP33 isn't quiet, and the G2's are decent but not great. Using a wireless send (regardless of brand) will further degrade your audio to the point that it will probably be unusable. If you were talking a Senn. 416, SD 302 and Lectro wireless for your mics and mixer, then wireless sends to the camera make sense. I would very strongly recommend you save your money and not bother with a wireless send to the camera. Just get a breakaway cable and a good bag and harness and do your best. Or invest in better sound gathering equipment and then look at the wireless hop. For what you'd spend renting Lectro 411's for your wireless hops for a few weeks will buy you a good used Sennheiser 416.

Phil
 
I have to agree, get a break away cable and go wired from the mixer to the camera. Save the rental cost and get a Senn 416, the ME66 is junk. And it's going to be a way bigger pain in the butt with 3 wireless units stuck the camera and you stuck with 3 wireless units with your rig then it is to just have a cable between you and the camera. Or you can always say forget it to recording to the camera and go dual system and just record to a DAT or hard drive recorder and use a slate.
 
Thanks for the input! Phil, can you explain why it's necessary to send a signal wirelessly from the camera back to the mixer? I assume this is just to ensure you're monitoring exactly what the camera is capturing? How is this different from setting up the levels on the camera in advance and monitoring off the mixer?

As for the ME66, I know it's not pristine but it has served us reasonably well (hard-wired) on past doc shoots. The DP will be bringing his own shotgun as well... I'm hoping it's something like a 416. All my previous sound experience has been plugging the ME66 and G2 w/ Tram mic straight into a DVX100, so my standards might be lower than most professional recordists... I'm hoping at the very least the FP33 will have better preamps and the Lectrosonics wireless hop won't add too much noise.

This is a test shoot so budget is very limited. Only reason for the wireless hop is the DP really really doesn't want to be tethered. I'll rent a breakaway cable just in case.
 
Sean,

Yes, the hop from the camera is to monitor what is being recorded on the camera. You'd be amazed at how many shots have been saved by my monitoring back from the camera (even though the levels are set, etc.) DP's are notorious for unplugging things and changing things without saying anything. If I don't hear anything, something is unplugged. If the levels sound off, the DP fiddled with something. I always put gaffer tape over the gain knobs on the DVX, and I've had DP's remove the tape and change the levels "because they know best what's going to sound good on their camera". (This is also why I always insist on double system - no one can fiddle with my knobs but me). :-)

I still think you need to tell your DP s/he is SOL and deal with being teathered. Wireless camera hops are rarely (in my experience) used on low budget shoots. I've never used a wireless hop (but will be now that I have a Zaxcom kit). If you're going to rent something, rent a better mixer and mic. If you really have to go wireless, look into the newer zaxcom kits that have stereo send with an IFB channel back. In theory (I've never done this) you can use one Rx on the camera and one Tx on your mixer. These units also have a recorder built into the Tx so you can record your audio before it is sent to the camera and generally get the best audio you can out of your current setup.

HTH,

Phil
 
Alright, so thankfully the DP has a 416 and that's what I'll be using to boom. I think it's too late at this point to call off the wireless hop, since both Producer and DP seem really committed to it. I might still be able to upgrade the rental to an SD302 for an extra $5/day, but I was told the learning curve on that mixer is little steeper, and as I mentioned this is my first time field mixing. Is there really a major sound quality difference between the FP33 and SD302?

Also, does the wireless send from the camera have to go back into the third channel on the mixer so I can see levels, or would I just be plugging headphones straight into the receiving unit?

Thank you Phil for taking the time to answer these questions. This is extremely helpful!
 
I've never used an FP33, but I do know the 302 is a great mixer, and really does not have much of a learning curve to do the basics.

As far as your return goes, on the right side of the 302 there is a 3.5mm return input. You can then use the knob for the headphones on the front to determine what you're listening to (i.e. the return only, or the direct mic inputs, etc.)

I would still add a breakaway cable to your rental kit - I still think you're going to need it.

Phil
 
ok... for $5 a day, get the 302!!!!!!!!!!!!! The fp33 belongs in a very definite place -the 1980's. where it was designed, used, and abandoned for dead.

and -

you're using mediocre equipment. sorry, but its true. and sending it through the best eng wireless system you can buy (besides the zaxcom, but pfft). it makes no sense.

get your dp and producer to see the light of day and GROW UP. they are causing silly problems on a low budget shoot! you can only act high budget when it IS high budget. if they suddenly have money to be renting lectro 4xx series hops when it suits the DP, you're being shafted having to work with an me66 and an fp33.

i'd get the 302 and use the 4 series lectros to mic the talent. this is the rig that will get the best sound. its silly to think otherwise.

for my money, the dp is walking all over you for no reason. are you filming shark cage diving? or fast paced action stuff in a working construction site? or hiking up a snowy sub zero mountain? doubt it. those are reasons to use a hop, not some artistic crap about "freedom of movement". 100bucks says the producer insists on a monitor on set and you end up wth a cable to camera ANYWAY.

i worked last year with an oscar nominated documentayry dop, who prefers to go wireless whenever possible. on that shoot, i didntt see it as feasible for budget and quality reasons. she listened to why i didnt want to use wireless and ultimately agreed and made it work. THATS a professional.
 
or like i said get a slate and get a DAT or Harddrive or Flash recorder and screw the lectros and just go double system and they can sync it up in post, it'd be better sound quality and you have totally control over it. Doesn't need to be a TC slate, any competent editor can sync sound to picture pretty quickly with a standard slate, the ones they say they can't are just really lazy.
 
Definately record double system if you are going w/l. The HDX900 has TC in and if you are using a decent cam you can at least rent a TC recorder and sync then. There really is no excuse for doing any less.

Good luck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top