Which capture card is best for me?

M

Mike@AF

Veteran
I currently have a 2007 Mac Pro 8-Core 3.0Ghz with 9GB RAM. It has a Radeon X1900 XT graphics card running two Apple 30" Cinema Displays. I also have a Highpoint Tech eSATA RAID controller. I recently moved my old plasma to the edit suite with the intention of using it as a monitor after I calibrate it for color correction. I know this isn't a broadcast quality plasma, but it's pretty good and once I calibrate it, it will be good enough until I upgrade that too. Anyways, I'm thinking I shouldn't add another Radeon X1900 XT card because it will eat up all my remaining slots because it's so big. I expect to do more editing work in the near future and may need a capture card. So I think just getting a capture card and monitoring out of that to the plasma would be the best choice. I've been researching the AJA and Blackmagic options and am now thoroughly confused about what I should get.

Mainly, I want to be able to output to the plasma via HDMI(DVI) or component. Looking at the literature and the specs on these cards it seems they don't support all the resolutions and frame rates I work with right now, which is mostly 1080/24pA and 720/24pN from an HVX200. The AJA Kona 3 and Blackmagic Decklink appear to support 1080/24pA (1080PsF 23.98 and 1080P 24?), but neither show support for 720/24pN. The Intensity Pro seemed like it would be perfect, but it doesn't even support 1080PsF 23.98 or 1080P 24. I also looked at the Motu V3HD, AJA Io HD, and Blackmagic Multibridge Pro. Those also support 1080PsF 23.98 and 1080P 24, but not 720/24pN. The V3HD and Io HD are also much more expensive than the card options.

If I'm working with a 720/24pN project (as well as 1080/24pA) I want to be able to monitor out to the plasma (as well as work with the projects on my 30" displays) without having to render all of my P2 clips or recapture/convert all of my P2 clips.

I mainly work with Final Cut Pro 6 and have Magic Bullet Looks and Colorista installed. I also use Motion, Color, and Shake. I'll also be delving into After Effects CS3 a little more.

Audio doesn't really matter to (unless capturing through the capture card) as I have an M-Audio Firewire 410 to handle my current audio needs, which includes multichannel surround sound mixing. None of these capture cards can handle that.

What would be the best option for me? Is there something I haven't even looked at? Thanks for the help.
 
Well, I've been doing more research. I think I've determined that these capture cards do in fact support 720/24pN. They just output as 720p59.94, is that correct?

I think the Blackmagic Multibridge Pro will do the trick. It even has HDMI and can send 1080p 23.98 and 1080p 24 to my 1080p plasma in the other room, which would be ideal for final screening. It seems it will also allow me to use realtime effects more often with less rendering. Has anyone here that works with HVX200-shot projects have experience with the Multibridge? Does all of this sound like it will work? Thanks for the help.
 
How about getting a second video card, running DVI-HDMI
out for digital cinema preview?

It sounds like monitoring is more needed than actual capturing. If you have digital or analog decks, then it makes sense, but you only eluded to MAYBE having more work in the future that required additional capturing.

I'd say that if that work comes, then go the route of buying decks/capture cards. Just my $0.02. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the input. Yes, that's what I was originally looking at just an additional graphics card. I have a 2007 Mac Pro, which has only 2 card options that would work for me, the Geforce 7300 (which isn't a great card) or the Radio X1900 XT (which is what I have right now). Apple says the cards for the newer Mac Pros aren't fully compatible. Although I've read about others using the Radeon 2600 successfully, I see that it's PCIe 2.0 and the 2007 Mac Pros aren't 2.0. The Geforce 8800 doesn't work either.

The Radeon X1900 XT is a great card, but it's power hungry and would use up nearly all of the 300w available on the PCIe bus. It also takes up 2 PCIe spaces. I already have a RAID controller installed, so installing another Radeon X1900 XT would eat up my 2 remaining PCIe slots, eliminating the possibility of adding a capture card later. If I just install a capture card now I'll still have one slot left for further expansion later if necessary.

It's not that I "may be" doing more editing work, it's that I expect to and need to do more editing work. I'm already getting more editing work now and want to open my options and capabilities for the type of projects I can take on. I don't plan on buying decks right now, just a capture card solution. I can always borrow or rent expensive decks if they're needed. The capture card is a little different since it needs to be installed in the computer and not just interfaced with it.
 
Hi Mike:

I have the Aja Kona 3. The BMD MultiBridge product is decent but I have used both and I like some of the finer points and support on the Aja better. Yes, 720 24PN material is always at 59.94.

Keep in mind, at least last time I checked, the MultiBridge did not do HD uprez like the AJA does. I like the uprez because I edit docs and work with a lot of SD material in HD timelines so the real time uprez looks beautiful. The cross conversion also works killer, I can output my 720 24PN material in real time to 1080i. Love the Kona 3, it is one of the best pieces of gear that I have ever bought.

Best,

Dan
 
There's a newer version of the Multibridge, the Multibridge Pro. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the specs at http://blackmagic-design.com/products/multibridge/techspecs/ show that it does the SD-HD and 720 upconversion to 1080. It's in the Processing section about 2/3 way down. Given that I'm reading the specs correctly, is there really any other pressing reason to go with the Kona 3? I know the Kona 3 may be a bit more capable in processing, but it doesn't have HDMI output and I'd really like to be able to output my 1080p projects to a 1080p display in Dot-by-Dot mode.
 
Aha, the Multibridge Pro, had not heard of that model. I guess they had to upgrade the MultiBridge because that was the one feature that the Kona 3 had that the MultiBridge did not. Is there up/cross conversion realtime and performed with hardware? If so, that's good. My friend has a BMD Decklink card and it's downconversion was through software and it made HD downconverted to NTSC look like dookie. The up/down/cross conversion in the Aja is definitely great quality.

No HDMI output on the Kona, it has SD SDI, HD SDI, component and composite output. Well with the cross conversion up conversion available, I can't think of too many other reasons to not go with the MBP over the Kona 3, although the Kona 3 does offer 2k support, not sure if the MBP does? Also, I will vouch that in my experience with both companies, Aja has superior tech support.

Good luck,

Dan
 
The Multibridge Pro does support 2K. The say specifically "2 x 10 bit SD, HD, 3Gb/s HD and 2K switchable. Usable as Dual Link HD-SDI for 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 connection or 3 Gb/s for HD-SDI 4:4:4 or 2K.".

I'm not sure about the hardware conversion for SD-HD and HD-SD, but it does say the colorspace is hardware conversion in real time. For HD downconversion it says "Supports playback from HD to SD. Supports down conversion on capture from HD video input to SD files. Anamorphic and letter box formats selectable." For HD upconversion is says "Supports capture from SD and 720HD video input to 1080HD files." Nothing that states specifically hardware HD-SD or SD-HD conversion, but they also say this: "Multibridge can even edit with DVCPRO HD™ media for down converted playback with RT effects."

I guess I'll have to put a call into Blackmagic to see what they say. Thanks for bringing up those details that should be looked at.
 
I used the BMD Decklink with great success for monitoring out via component. But then my computer died and money was tight (my decklink was PCI-X so I had to get a new card for the PCI-e slot). So I got the Intensity Pro. Most of what I needed to do immediately was monitor via either component or HDMI so the Intensity Pro was my choice. The footage I was working on was 1080p24 HDV footage and initially I had a tough time getting it to display via the Intensity Pro. I had heard various opinions on whether the Intensity would display 24p footage. Mike Curtis at HD4Indies said "yes" in a forum somewhere. BMD said "no" - or at least the Intensity did not come with a 23.98->29.97 preset in it like the Decklink does.
To make a long story short, it works now. Sometimes I have to go to a different preset like 720p to get proper recognition and then switch to my desired preset.

I am assuming this is the same case with 720/24pN footage. I have some p2 footage I can test with.

In the meantime, I will save my pennies till I actually get a job that requires HD-SDI input or I can afford a client monitor with HD-SDI input.
 
I confirmed today with Blackmagic that the Multibridge Pro does software-based conversion, not hardware. This makes my decision not as easy.

Fourth Line, as you mentioned I would also prefer to save some money and wait for a job that would require those particular needs. The Intensity Pro won't work for me according to Blackmagic. They said it does not support 1080 23.98PsF, which I'll need to work with 1080/24pA footage from the HVX200. I need the Decklink or Multibridge Pro for that. I also really want HDMI, which eliminates the Kona 3.

Is there really nothing out there that offers hardware conversion and HDMI?

How much of a difference in quality will I see on final output between hardware-based and software-based conversion? If the final output with both is the same, but the rendering and output times are longer with the software-based that won't be a big issue for me. I do want to get maximum quality tho, without breaking the bank of course.
 
flmmkr,

I have a good deal of p2 footage that I am 98% sure is 720/24pN. As stated above, I also have the Intensity Pro so I opened the project (first time on this computer with the Intensity). The Intensity Pro was set to 1080i/59.94 from the last project. I switched to 720p/59.94 - no luck, not even audio. I then switched to 720p/60. I would now get audio and a still image on the client monitor at the last timeline point. I then switched back and forth a bit between presets and then presto - video (through HDMI) and audio (through RCA) coming out of the Intensity Pro when set to 720p 59.94. For my purposes (only monitoring) this seems to be fine. It's a little annoying to have to fiddle around with presets until it "catches" but at this point, my bank account thanks me.
 
A little annoying but at least it works. How about those frame rates in Color, Motion, and After Effects? Also, what about 1080/24pA from HVX200?
 
I don't use a client monitor for AE (I have two monitors - one displays full screen as I only do AE on one screen).
I haven't done much with Color or Motion - so no help there.
I also haven't used the 1080/24 frame rate from the HVX, but I do have a lot of HDV 24F (Canon's 24p frame) that works well. I also import from AE Apple Pro Res 24p footage and it also works.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.
 
I guess that's the big question mark for me. I need compatibility with those apps, not just Final Cut Pro. If it's finicky under FCP, I can imagine it causing all kinds of problems in those other apps. Perhaps I should wait and see if AJA announces a new Kona 3 with HDMI, being that NAB is only a couple weeks away.
 
Waiting until NAB sounds like a reasonable plan to me. In the meantime, hopefully you'll get a gig that requires HD-SDI ingest :)
 
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