New to lighting... First purchase... Cool lights VS. Lowel light kit?

No offence mate, but there´s really a lot of info on both brands here and your question is as unspicific as asking "What should I buy, Sony or Panasonic?"...
 
Get some of both. A Lowel DP light can throw out a significant amount of light. This light is a good tool for your light "arsenal"..if you will. Richard's lights (Owner of Cool Lights) are great for a multiitude of assignments, but the addition of some hard lights will greatly benefit your kit.
I would even suggest you skip the Lowel kit altogether, and buy the fresnel lights that Cool Lights offers over an expensive ARRI kit.
 
I've been trying to fix a friend's Lowel Omni lights and I must say that there are some huge design flaws in them that will fail at some point no matter what.

Matthew
 
I am new to this also, but I just bought 4 cool lights (as in coollights.biz) and I really like them. The best thing about them (besides their functionality) is that the customer service is fantastic. You actually get to talk (email) to the owner of the company and get a response within hours--sometimes minutes.

The price is right and if you have a problem, you are not just a number and have to wait on hold for 6 hours to get someone. His response is GREAT! I had a minor glitch with my order and he took care of it as soon as I told him about it!! Incredible!

Oh, and the lights are awesome too!

And NO, I don't get any payment for this advertising! HAHA! ;)
 
filmat11 said:
Get some of both. A Lowel DP light can throw out a significant amount of light. This light is a good tool for your light "arsenal"..if you will. Richard's lights (Owner of Cool Lights) are great for a multiitude of assignments, but the addition of some hard lights will greatly benefit your kit.
I would even suggest you skip the Lowel kit altogether, and buy the fresnel lights that Cool Lights offers over an expensive ARRI kit.
Click to expand...

I know he's running low on them now (inventory), but I would even suggest the CDM or HMI lights if you don't happen to have any lights in your kit. If you are just starting out, I'd go for the fluorscent-type lights vs. tungsten. I'm sure a lot of you long-time pros will disagree, but I think that the 5400K range of lights is the wave of the future and offers many advantages.

1. Cooler operating temps.
2. Less strain on Elect. panels
3. Cheaper to run

Those are what convinced me to go the "cool" route. If your just starting out, that's what I would (and DID) do.
 
I've never used cool ligths but I am not a fan of Lowell's. They give off light just fine, but the construction is a bit weak for me. To be fair, the one's that I'm using are from a studio kit that is rather old and has seen better days. But Lowell lights aren't as sturdy as Mole-Richardsons.

davide
 
I would say if you're shooting mostly indoors go with the cool lights- if you need big wattage for outdoors rent yourself some HMI's.
 
In the soft light output category, there's always the debate of whether to use the "softbox formfactor" or a more solid fixture form like our CL-455P which uses biax 55w tubes. Then after that you have portable or fixed considerations which affect the type of fixture you may get. We are covering all these because there are fans of all the types.

In the hardlight category its between the "cool" ones like HMI / metal halide or tungsten which is your classic "hot" light. You typically have the floodlights or the spotlights in this category. We mostly have the spotlight category covered in hard lights as we feel the control is better and there is more value-added over open faced lights which have very little control usually other than barndoors and sometimes a small focusing capability.

The dvcreators kit is all open faced, floodlight category tungsten lighting with apparently some control over wide / narrow beam but no lenses (except for the pro light 250 I think), so it's down to how much control you feel you need at the fixture level and whether you like hot lights or not IMHO. With this kind of kit, they offer hard light with leaving the diffusion off and softlight through adding softboxes or umbrellas on the fixtures.

With what Cool Lights is doing, we offer fluorescent softlights which are always soft as fluorescent just has this quality and hard spot lights mostly in the form of fresnels which can be hard or soft by the addition of a bit of diffusion of various kinds.

We are out of stock on the well-accepted CL-MF0150 fresnel which is the cool equivalent of a 650w tungsten fresnel but we do have the tungsten fresnel series too.

Hard light gives you definition, sharp edges, shadows and projection when you need it. Soft output gives you a flattering light which rounds out features, minimizes shadows, has little projection and definition but then there are times that is what you want. We have both hard and soft lights because a well-rounded kit would have both to cover all the circumstances where they are appropriate. After that, the different forms of hard or soft light fixtures are usually dictated by your needs for portability (or not), budget and working preferences.
 
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As far as my response to his original post, I'd like to add that I was considering his budget when I suggested using Lowel lights at all. I don't like tota-lights much, but they do have their uses. The Lowel DP seems to offer the most practicality of all the Lowel lights, with the exception of the Lowel- Pro-light.
Without debating Lowel versus lowel, and "I love my Rifa's " types, I will say that when I started 25 years ago, I was handed a lowel light and a Mole 2k fresnel, and experimented with them to death.
"What's best for me? "" I am starting out in filmmaking and need lights for my first movie or music video."
How many times have we read this question on this forum ?
I usually answer given what background they have(or at least have shared with us) and how they ask the question(s).
It would be great if everyone could afford a truck load of HMI's and every piece of grip gear, but we know that's not practical or a useful answer to give to someone new or even a seasoned, working pro.
I believe we should ask our beloved website owner to make the "Stickies" larger or more prominent on this site. Or make it mandatory for anyone joining the site to READ the instructions on how to use the SEARCH button.
Perhaps going through all the past advice in each category-Cinematography-Lighting Directing..ect And adding a "Sticky" of all the greatest tips, and tricks or advice anyone has given on this site could be made into even larger "STICKIES", and ask EVERYONE TO READ THEM... Sure is alot cheaper than film school. MY TWO CENTS
 
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A four-light hard-light kit is where I think most people should start. 3-point lighting is a basic, time-tested, (though often misunderstood) approach. Lighting for fiction has more variation than interview or spokesperson lighting, but the underlying basics remain the same.

Everybody has personal favorites, and the old axiom is that you can never have too many lights.


The classic Arri Softbank 2 interview kit serves as a model:

1. A 1000 watt openface, focusable fixture with softbox and barn doors. Soft key with the softbox, or put diffusion on the open doors for a smaller size light source (semi-hard key) or go totally hard, bouncing off a wall or bounce card. Very versatile.
2. A 650 watt fresnel with barn doors. Use for fill light, bounced or shot through diffusion (like a flexfill or a sheet of diffusion hung on a c-stand).
3. Another 650 watt fresnel-use this hard to light up the background, "painting" it with a slash or break up the beam by shooting through foliage or a cukaloris.
4. A 300 watt fresnel for a backlight.

To this basic kit add a 5-in-one flex-fill (with black, silver, half-gold, white and translucent options), a selection of gels (for a tungsten kit you will mostly want blue gels in 1/4, 1/2 and full strengths), and a couple of dimmers that can at least handle the 300, if not the 650. I use the Harbor Freight router dimmers, although I've had two burn out while using them on 650's or 1K's, so be aware.

For a "first" kit you don't necessarily want to invest in any lights that are one-trick ponies, so the ideal kit contains focusable hard lights. You can make a hard light soft but you can't make a soft light hard.

Next, how much light do you need? Well, with an HVX200 you need a fair amount of light, and even more with most HDV cameras. I'd stay with the above wattages (or their HMI/fluorescent equivalents.) If you are using a DVX100b or an HPX500, or most modern DV cameras, you can knock your wattages down. A 650 watt key light, 300 watt fill/background lights, and a 150 watt back light are sufficient.

Lowel has its place if you can live with the limitations. Their advantage is relatively light weight, compact for travel, flexible and inexpensive. A kit based around a Lowel DP with a softbox, two Lowel Omni's with umbrellas and a Lowel Pro-light can be very compact and flexible. I've lit many an interview with similar kit. Disadvantages include less sturdy construction, less light control than fresnel fixtures. Most people seem unhappy with Lowel stands also. One product many like from Lowel is the Rifa, a one-piece softbox with bulb that opens and collapses like an umbrella.

Arri and Mole are the top of the line, but very pricey, with industry-standard fresnel and open-face tungsten fixtures.

You could set up a high-quality tungsten kit very easily and inexpensively with Cool Light's hardlight series fresnel instruments:

1 x 650, 2 x 300, 1 x 150. Get Cool Lights stands. Add a speedring and softbox by Photoflex, Wescott or Chimera, designed for Arri. Cool Lights fixtures use standard Arri/Mole accessories such as barn doors, scrims and speedrings.

-OR-

2 x 650, 1 x 300. I don't remember if Richard offers a 1K fresnel fixture. If so, add one (doesn't throw quite as much light as a 1K open face, but is more focusable). If not, add a Lowel DP with barn doors. Add a speedring and softbox as above, designed for whichever 1K you end up with. Don't forget gels, dimmers, and stands.

There are lots of considerations for a personal kit, but those are, in my opinion, the basics. If you prefer to have a kit that is cooler on talent, draws far less power, is white-balanced to daylight rather than tungsten, and can be happy with -only- having soft light for your talent key and fill, then here's my general recommendation:

Cool Lights starter kit 1:

1 CL455P 4-bulb portable biax fixture (key), lamped to daylight.
1 C{255P 2-bulb portable biax fixture (fill), lamped to daylight.
1 650 watt tungsten fresnel for the background
1 300 watt tungsten fresnel for a backlight

You will then need: 1/4, 1/2, and full blue gels for the tungsten fixtures to match to daylight, and 1/4, 1/2 and full sheets of orange gel for the Cool fluos. You will also benefit from sheets of Rosco 250 (half-diffusion) to clip to the fresnel and Cool fluo barn doors to further soften and/or dim the lights when needed. For more light at the expense of fixture size and weight, swap a 6-lamp CL655P fixture for the two-lamp fixture (so you have a four- and a six.) You can also get a set of tungsten-balanced biax bulbs instead of the orange gels, if you prefer.

Cool Lights starter kit #2 (less expensive but less flexible and less convenient to setup):

For key and fill, get two Cool Lights softbox fixtures that use the 250 watt mogul base lights. Add a selection of orange gels to clip to the front of the softbox as above.
For background and back-light, get the 650w and 300 w tungsten fresnels as above, with blue gels.

When Richard has his CDM-150 (HMI) fresnels back in stock, substitute that for the tungsten 650's above, substituting a selection of orange gels instead of blue.

Of course, you will need good stands, a transport bag or case, and a flex-fill, regardless of the specific kit you buy.

-Mark
 
sunporchmedia said:
2 x 650, 1 x 300. I don't remember if Richard offers a 1K fresnel fixture. If so, add one (doesn't throw quite as much light as a 1K open face, but is more focusable). If not, add a Lowel DP with barn doors. Add a speedring and softbox as above, designed for whichever 1K you end up with. Don't forget gels, dimmers, and stands.
Click to expand...

Yes great post! We do in fact have a 1K fixture so that's a possibility for sure.
 
Ah thank you all so much for these great replies! I've learned a lot reading them. :)

And it's pretty cool to have the cool lights guy in the forums answering questions :) good stuff.

Mark, thanks for your recommendations. That really helps me have a starting point. Although I am familiar with the concept of 3-point lighting and a background light, I'm not too familiar about the light gear itself (different types, names, etc), like... which one is made for the key light? which one for the hair/rim light? which one for the filler? and especially about the different accessories.

And your reply is a great starting point for me to figure those out. Thanks.

Anymore tips and input would be great, thanks guys!

So then this is a great starting kit as suggested by Mark:

1 CL455P 4-bulb portable biax fixture (key), lamped to daylight.
1 C{255P 2-bulb portable biax fixture (fill), lamped to daylight.
1 CDM-150 for background
1 300 watt tungsten fresnel for a backlight (is there a cool light version of this one rather than tungsten? I might as well go "cool light" on everything)

But those lights only throw off soft light right? So I wouldn't need any kind of diffusion boxes or diffusion papers? Just scrims to gradually decrease intensity? light stand, maybe some clamps, anything else?

And then there's gels (to match white balance / day light / tungsten / etc), but what do you mean "lamped to daylight"? Is that lamp throwing off daylight temperature? Or does adding the orange gel makes it "lamped to daylight"? And if I whitebalance to fluorescent lights, why would I still need to use gels?

I am leaning more towards getting the hard lights as it seems more versatile. And I would just use diffusion stuff to make it soft.

This is the one Mark recommended:

1 x 650.... which I am thinking is the key light...
2 x 300... The fill and the hair light?
1 x 150.... for background light?

OR

1 x 1k cool light... for key?
2 x 650.... this would be for fill and hair?
1 x 300... for background light?


Could you please give me the specific cool light models? (e.g. CDM 150)

Also, are some of these bigger lights the type where it has like, for example, 4 bulbs, and I can turn off 2 bulbs to decrease intensity? Or if not, I guess I would just use scrims and diffusion material right?

I was looking at the Cool lights site, and it doesn't have much accessories, like diffusion stuff, diffusion boxes, the gels, etc. Any recommendations as to a good place to buy that online? (as there isn't any good camera places where I'm located at) And if I buy it from an outside source, how do I know what size ring to buy, what size diffusion box to buy, umbrellas, etc. that will be sure to match up with my Cool lights?

So, from what I seem to have understood... the main benefits of the Cool lights as compared to the Lowel kits I linked to ( http://dvcreators.net/lowel-dvcreators-light-kits ), is that Cool lights have a more sturdy build, and would probably last longer, more energy efficient, and not hot...? And I think... the cool lights are made to be more focusable/controllable? Does it throw more powerful light than the Lowel kits i'm comparing to?

The thing I like about the Lowel is that it's sold as a kit with filters, umbrellas, diffusion box, gels, stands, etc. The cons I read about is that people don't like the light stands, it's flimsy?

Any more cons and pros?

By the way, my main purpose for the lights, is for film productions (dramatic, indie film stuff) and TV commercials, not so much for interviews. So more for lighting my subjects in a room to get nice quality lighting and to use it over the long run.

Thanks!

JM
 
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justmarvin said:
Mark, thanks for your recommendations. That really helps me have a starting point. Although I am familiar with the concept of 3-point lighting and a background light, I'm not too familiar about the light gear itself (different types, names, etc), like... which one is made for the key light? which one for the hair/rim light? which one for the filler? and especially about the different accessories.
Click to expand...

Key light is just about any hard or soft source that is the primary light. It can be a fresnel (hard light) or diffused / soft source (fresnel with diffusion, softbox, fluorescent softlight, etc).

Fill light is a weaker source than the key light and can even be just a reflector.

Since we are working with a 2D medium (video/film) and trying to make a 3D looking result, our only choice is to "paint" with light in the same way a painter does. One side of the face brighter than the other helps with this 3D look.

Hair light is generally a hardlight like a fresnel which gives better definition than a softlight would for the same use. Sometimes people do use a softbox or other diffused source as a hair/rim light but its a more subtle effect

justmarvin said:
So then this is a great starting kit as suggested by Mark:

1 CL455P 4-bulb portable biax fixture (key), lamped to daylight.
1 C{255P 2-bulb portable biax fixture (fill), lamped to daylight.
1 CDM-150 for background
1 300 watt tungsten fresnel for a backlight (is there a cool light version of this one rather than tungsten? I might as well go "cool light" on everything)

But those lights only throw off soft light right? So I wouldn't need any kind of diffusion boxes or diffusion papers? Just scrims to gradually decrease intensity? light stand, maybe some clamps, anything else?
Click to expand...

The 455P and 255P throw softlight.

The CDM-150 and 300w tungsten are both fresnels and throw a hard light by themselves. No cool version of the 300w tungsten yet. The CDM-150 is a cool version of the 650w tungsten fresnel and its really the only cool hard light like that we have at the moment until we develop some of the other product ideas I have. We are out of the CDM 150 until April or so.

justmarvin said:
And then there's gels (to match white balance / day light / tungsten / etc), but what do you mean "lamped to daylight"? Is that lamp throwing off daylight temperature? Or does adding the orange gel makes it "lamped to daylight"? And if I whitebalance to fluorescent lights, why would I still need to use gels?
Click to expand...

Each of our fluorescent fixtures comes with a free set of either 3200K or 5600K tubes. Lamped to daylight means you use our 5600K tubes as 5600K is considered to be the photographic standard for daylight. So yes, it is putting out a daylight color temperature. Adding an orange gel would bring the color temperature down more into the "tungsten" or 3200K range which is "warmer" as we put it. White balancing works best when all the lamps involved for lighting are in the same color temperature range. 3200K for tungsten lighting and 5600K (or so) for daylight. Mixing the color temperatures can give bad looking results so if you use mostly daylight colored lamps and a couple of tungsten fixtures, it may be best to gel them "up" to daylight color temperature using CTB gels to match the other fixtures. And the opposite case too: using mostly tungsten colored fixtures, you would want to gel any daylights "down" to match the tungstens using the CTO type gels.

justmarvin said:
I am leaning more towards getting the hard lights as it seems more versatile. And I would just use diffusion stuff to make it soft.

This is the one Mark recommended:

1 x 650.... which I am thinking is the key light...
2 x 300... The fill and the hair light?
1 x 150.... for background light?

OR

1 x 1k cool light... for key?
2 x 650.... this would be for fill and hair?
1 x 300... for background light?


Could you please give me the specific cool light models? (e.g. CDM 150)
Click to expand...

Cool Lights Models:

1000w tungsten fresnel = DTW-1000
650w tungsten fresnel = CL-TF0650
300w tungsten fresnel = DTW-300
150w tungsten fresnel = DTW-150
CDM 150 fresnel = CL-MF0150


We don't have a 1K coollight as such. A 455P would be the equivalent of a 800w tungsten softbox. A 655P would be the equivalent of a 1300w tungsten softbox.

justmarvin said:
Also, are some of these bigger lights the type where it has like, for example, 4 bulbs, and I can turn off 2 bulbs to decrease intensity? Or if not, I guess I would just use scrims and diffusion material right?
Click to expand...

There are bank select switches on those models to turn on/off tubes 2 at a time, so a 655P can be like a 255P or a 455P when you switch off tubes. We also have dimmable models which are CL-255PMD, CL-455PMD and CL-655PMD but they are more expensive reflecting the more expensive ballasts necessary to do dimming.

justmarvin said:
I was looking at the Cool lights site, and it doesn't have much accessories, like diffusion stuff, diffusion boxes, the gels, etc. Any recommendations as to a good place to buy that online? (as there isn't any good camera places where I'm located at) And if I buy it from an outside source, how do I know what size ring to buy, what size diffusion box to buy, umbrellas, etc. that will be sure to match up with my Cool lights?
Click to expand...

I work with people on an email basis to make sure they are getting what they need so don't be shy on asking questions through my email richard@coollights.biz or info@coollights.biz. I think people mostly diffuse fresnels with either frost gels, tough spun diffusion or something like a Chimera softbox. Just remember, diffusion or softening the light isn't just about adding something in front of it. It's also the size of the "something" you add in front of it. In general, the bigger the surface area of light emanating, the more soft it will be. Thus a big softbox gives a bigger surface area emanating light and is considered more soft than just adding some small area of diffusion gel or some such thing in front of a fresnel.

justmarvin said:
So, from what I seem to have understood... the main benefits of the Cool lights as compared to the Lowel kits I linked to ( http://dvcreators.net/lowel-dvcreators-light-kits ), is that Cool lights have a more sturdy build, and would probably last longer, more energy efficient, and not hot...? And I think... the cool lights are made to be more focusable/controllable? Does it throw more powerful light than the Lowel kits i'm comparing to?
Click to expand...

On our fluorescent models or CDM-150 fresnel, those are our main value added. They are the "cool lights." Our tungsten fresnels are not cool lights and we mainly carry them for those that still use tungsten and haven't completely converted over to an energy efficient kit.

justmarvin said:
The thing I like about the Lowel is that it's sold as a kit with filters, umbrellas, diffusion box, gels, stands, etc. The cons I read about is that people don't like the light stands, it's flimsy?

Any more cons and pros?

By the way, my main purpose for the lights, is for film productions (dramatic, indie film stuff) and TV commercials, not so much for interviews. So more for lighting my subjects in a room to get nice quality lighting and to use it over the long run.
Click to expand...

We don't carry a lot of the expendables like gels yet because I haven't found the source for that which I consider to be cost effective and value added over what you can already find in the market from other sources. That's what we do is mainly offer fixtures which are at a lower cost than what many are doing but a great deal of value for the money though. As time goes on, we will find the good sources for accessories and add more and more of these to have a complete offering but for now, my main focus is on the fixtures that are somehow unique in the market either by cost and/or by features.
 
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Richard,

I was going to reply, but you totally covered it! :-)

JM, I would only add that, regarding the lighting needs for indie film/commercials vs. interviews, the principles are not that different if you are lighting talent. Especially with closeups, you are usually aiming for lighting that, while in keeping with the overall style of the film and the specific scene, are flattering to the talent. The basic principles of portrait lighting still apply. If anything, a kit that is going to be used for shooting films might need a couple of additional fixtures....for flexibility, and for lighting larger areas. I'd add an extra 1k fresnel or maybe add a CL655P, to make it easier to light larger groups of people together or to add a wash of light to a larger background area.

Remember that, if you are using a 35 adapter, you will need at least twice the amount of light as when you aren't.
 
I'm a newb to lighting myself.

I can say the the CDM150's are some of the best purchases I've ever made. I want at least ONE more to make a total of three after using them today for hours on end.

We shot a live band w 3/HVX as they RECORDED and the hum of TWO ballasts was of NO problem to the recording studio.

Coollights rock. Now if Richard could only stock some more 150's sooner!!!
 
Well if someone would invent a transporter where you could transport a whole container load of stuff instantaneously from one side of the earth to the other, it sure would make my life a lot simpler! Shipping takes as long as it does to make the stuff.
 
Check the TimeFest section. You should find many options there.

=D

No, seriously, this is the best purchase I've made since my Letus Extreme! I'm no pro but I love 'em.
 
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