HD DVD vs. Blue Ray SETTLED?

Al MacLeod said:
Do you think now that Blu Ray has no competition that prices will drop faster? I think not.....
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that's not the reason. now that the war is over, the fear of buying the wrong format is gone. people are going to start buying blu ray players and media. production of both will increase and prices will drop. simple.
 
David Jimerson said:
The economies of scale between DVD and Blu-Ray are very different. Anyone with a TV can hook up a DVD player and get most of its benefit, and everyone has a TV.

Blu-Ray makes no sense unless you can take advantage of it, and of the less than 15% of households (in the US; less in other places) with HDTVs, a good chunk of those don't have HDMI and thus can't use Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD) for its full benefit. New TVs are needed.

So, it will continue to be a niche market for some time, and prices stay up there in niche markets. Blu-Ray player prices the same as DVD player prices? Not any time soon.
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you don't need hdmi to view blu-ray. my blu-ray player (ps3) has component outs and the quality is perfect.

as far as the percentage of households with hd goes, assuming your figure of 15% is correct, that will soon change. have you been in a best buy lately? it's tough to even find a non-hd tv there. only a matter of time now....
 
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Yes, well . . . you're going to find that you don't get full resolution over component with most titles. A wonderful little anti-piracy device at the disc level.

As for HDTVs, how many people are looking to replace their current sets? Given the market penetration as it is now, I'd wager on the "not that many" side.
 
Kegan Sant said:
Glad I invested in a Blu-ray player! It is about time too haha. I'm hoping to see a drop in Blu-ray burner prices.

-Kegan
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I just hope the blank media becomes affordable. One of the coolest things about HD-DVD was that it was easy to author a simple High Def disc with standard DVD media. (at least for DVD SP4 users)

I have the Toshiba and now it will join the Laserdisc player on the Island of Misfit Toys. :(Glad I only rented HD-DVD's for the most part.

The only thing that worries me is when Sony is in the driver's seat with a distribution medium. Ugh...high prices and Rootkits aplenty.
 
I think we're at around 30% in the US at this point, and we'll probably pick up steam noticeably in February when the analog transmissions are cut off. I don't expect that all that many people are relying on analog transmission anyway, but the "fear factor" of people's TVs no longer working might spur them to buy new, and frankly the only choice for "new" anymore is HD. So we may hit 50% by this time next year.

The thing that drove DVD prices down was the Chinese manufacturers. Chinese manufacturers have little incentive and little interest in blu-ray at all, it seems. I was reading an article about blu-ray royalties, and at one point one of the major Chinese manufacturers said "why bother? Our market is big enough to support our own format."

So this "war" may not be settled yet. If the Chinese manufacturers decide to mass-market their own format (HVD?) and sell it for $50, with no royalties per disc... well, we'll see...
 
Elton said:
I just hope the blank media becomes affordable.
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And therein lies the problem. Royalties per disc. On CDs it was a few pennies, on dual-layer DVD it was much higher, and on blu-ray it's way higher still.

The royalties on DVD players were high too, amounting to about $15 to $20 per player. The Chinese invented VCD/SVCD specifically to avoid any royalties, and on their DVD players they frequently just didn't pay any anyway, and that's how we got the $29 CyberHome DVD player in the stores.

The blu-ray licensing is much more expensive, so don't expect to see DVD-priced media in blu-ray, now or ever.
 
Cheapest I'm seeing is about $12 per disc in quantities of 10 or more. And that's just 25GB single layer recordable. Can't wait for those super-expensive coasters.

Hurray for BluRay. :(

Edit: I just checked NewEgg and it seems you can get single disc RiData for ten bucks. Joy.
 
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i like hd DVD

i like hd DVD

yeah well i did get my hd DVD player for 89$ at best buy 5 months ago
i was and am happy to veiw hd content on the plasma works!! the same blue ray is 250$ geez i got painted into a corner and whenblueray 2.0 hits the stores blueray owners will have to upgrade again in a year thats not fun ? when hybrid DVD players hit the market and blue light ray is costly still will there be remorse for poor people? i mean 89$ verses 250 $ worth the trouble i guess so but i was satisfied for 89 bux ?
its no end for the war over price and greed remember introduction to mp3?
suddenly the cd sales went down a smaller downloaded mp3 of hd whould be the most likely turn of events?
better mouse trap or good cheese?

dang i like hd DVD better buy ,whats the next xbox going to be? 12 million xbox
and 4 million ps3
ok ok put it this way 4-1 hd DVD to ps3 blue ray consoles
some one thew the fight!too bad no regulations for the new age technoligies just greedy

less is more?
 
David Jimerson said:
Yes, well . . . you're going to find that you don't get full resolution over component with most titles. A wonderful little anti-piracy device at the disc level.

As for HDTVs, how many people are looking to replace their current sets? Given the market penetration as it is now, I'd wager on the "not that many" side.
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I don't believe there is a single Disc that uses this optional flag.

prove me wrong.
 
Loki said:
I don't believe there is a single Disc that uses this optional flag.

prove me wrong.
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i agree. the tv my ps3 is connected to only has component and every disc i have played has been full rez. hdmi is overrated. just dvi with embedded audio and device control that rarely works. i have tried my cable box with both hdmi and component and no difference other than simplicity in the connections...
 
David Jimerson said:
There are labels right on the player documentation which say so. (Don't know if the PS3 says so; never looked at one, don't care to.)

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6423704.html

How do you know you're getting full res from your machine? If you want to get so snippy about it, prove that you are.
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i would know for sure if my playback was downrezzed. my blu-rays look better than the best hd channel on cable (currently discovery hd theatre). the ps3 also does a great job of uprezzing standard dvds. still blu-ray is the best image i have seen.

on a side note, i downloaded some of the 1080p footage from the RED site and converted to h.264 mp4 and i can play it back thru the ps3. it is amazing.

BTW, the article linked above refers to both formats using this copy protection scheme...... i doubt we will see this implemented until hdmi is more of a standard.....
 
960x540 progressive at a higher bitrate and/or with a more efficient codec may indeed look better than 1080i compressed to MPEG-2 25 mbps, yes.

But pay attention to what they're doing. It wouldn't affect something you render and display yourself.
 
Okay, got a dumb question for you guys. I just got a blu ray player for my HD TV. My standard def DVD's still show up as letter box, but blu ray dvd's fill the entire screen. Looks like all the info is there unlike pan and scan. But shouldn't I still see the picture at 16:9?

thanks,

JP
 
David Jimerson said:
960x540 progressive at a higher bitrate and/or with a more efficient codec may indeed look better than 1080i compressed to MPEG-2 25 mbps, yes.

But pay attention to what they're doing. It wouldn't affect something you render and display yourself.
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ok so i did the acid test. took the ps3 from my 1080i plasma with component only to my other tv which is a 1080p plasma with both hdmi and component. i connected both ways and switched back and forth. no difference in resolution that i can see. both look amazing. i just don't think anybody is using this security feature. at least none of the blu-rays i own or have rented have been downrezzed.
 
jpsheets said:
Okay, got a dumb question for you guys. I just got a blu ray player for my HD TV. My standard def DVD's still show up as letter box, but blu ray dvd's fill the entire screen. Looks like all the info is there unlike pan and scan. But shouldn't I still see the picture at 16:9?

thanks,

JP
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make sure you have your player set up properly. make sure it knows you have a 16:9 tv. if it is set to a 4:3 tv, it may add the letterbox. i know dvd players do this...
 
cheezweezl said:
make sure you have your player set up properly. make sure it knows you have a 16:9 tv. if it is set to a 4:3 tv, it may add the letterbox. i know dvd players do this...
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Yeah, it's weird, the player is set to 16:9 as the default. Don't think it's the tv, it's a Sony as well.
 
jpsheets said:
Yeah, it's weird, the player is set to 16:9 as the default. Don't think it's the tv, it's a Sony as well.
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have you tried the dvd in another player? is it possible that the letterbox is part of the dvd and not being added by the player? is it a ps3 or another blu-ray player? ps3 displays 16:9 dvds full screen for me...
 
David Jimerson said:
There are labels right on the player documentation which say so. (Don't know if the PS3 says so; never looked at one, don't care to.)

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6423704.html

How do you know you're getting full res from your machine? If you want to get so snippy about it, prove that you are.
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There was a big fuss over the 'image constraint token' or the flag in the AACS encryption scheme that would downgrade your image if it wasn't displayed through an HDMI source.

From the article you linked:

ccording to an excellent summary of the decision from Video Business (via Dark Horizons), no studio has yet stated whether it plans to take advantage of the downconversion option.
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Which I believe is still the case. The amount of TV that can display a full 1080p signal over analog component cables is miniscule. And those that are 1080p all now have HDMI so this option is pointless now anyways. And for the few TV's that do accept a 1080p image source via component those TV's will still have a full image; unless some studio has been turning this flag on and nobody has yet to notice.

How do I know? For my own personal non scientific results I know because I am using an HDMI connection. And my ps3 output is set to 1080p. I achieved a 1080i output from my PS3 before my HDMI cables had arrived via component. My monitor didn't support 1080p over Component like many many displays. Visual image quality was nearly identical to that of 1080p, which leads me to the conclusion that the flag was not active, or that the PS3 bypasses it (which I highly doubt).

What was the point in you bringing this up in the first place I wonder? Aside from linking an article that basically re-affirms my stance on the matter.

May have come off as snippy, but seriously, prove me wrong. I have no problem admitting I am wrong. Its not meant to be 'snippy'.

You seem to have it out for blu-ray based on your postings... any particular reason?
 
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