Brendan Stewart
Member
Thanks for all the feedback
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Killing With A Smile Script (Review)
- Thread starter Brendan Stewart
- Start date
Brendan Stewart
Member
anyone?
hey i love the topic but have some suggestions. First off we just read an excerpt of MR. BROOKS. I mean that is ok but don't make it so obvious.
Charles and Cheslar don't have to be anagrams. I tried the same anagram thing but realized doing research that I subconciously stole the idea from Silence of the Lambs.
I thought the story was pretty good and kept my attention but fought through it was almost immediately realized they were the same guy. I say change the name of Cheslar.
Also about 10 typos or misspelled words.
And you did alot of explaining what was going on inside the mind of a character. Big no, no in a screenplay. Simply tell us what happens. Good screenwriting is knowing what they are thinking by what they are doing.
Like i said I enjoyed the story and the flashbacks and how you told it worked well, but giving away the climax so early was a let down.
And I would stay away from Britney. You could pick a different topic that the media chose was more important and it would still be absurd. I just feel that is you decide to film this or it gets made that will date it down the road. What if Brit cleans her life up and then your film is dated.
Later,
odetotud
Charles and Cheslar don't have to be anagrams. I tried the same anagram thing but realized doing research that I subconciously stole the idea from Silence of the Lambs.
I thought the story was pretty good and kept my attention but fought through it was almost immediately realized they were the same guy. I say change the name of Cheslar.
Also about 10 typos or misspelled words.
And you did alot of explaining what was going on inside the mind of a character. Big no, no in a screenplay. Simply tell us what happens. Good screenwriting is knowing what they are thinking by what they are doing.
Like i said I enjoyed the story and the flashbacks and how you told it worked well, but giving away the climax so early was a let down.
And I would stay away from Britney. You could pick a different topic that the media chose was more important and it would still be absurd. I just feel that is you decide to film this or it gets made that will date it down the road. What if Brit cleans her life up and then your film is dated.
Later,
odetotud
I was looking for something to read in the site, and so i read your script. It reminds me a movie from Robert Rodriguez, kind of like a comic book, well, just for the names " Charles and Cheslar" have you see his latest movie, it's black and white, i belive is called "Sin City" crappy movie if i must say yet entreteinig. Visual effects are worth to watch, i wouldn't see again, but it's ok
STYLZ
Well-known member
Huh. I didn't figure out till the end that cheslar was who he was. I read the whole thing no problem, so props on that. When I found out what was going on first thing to come to my mind was, "I bet this guy is a fight club fan" is this true? At anyrate I wouldn't mind seeing this short on video/film.
The waitress says "Most certainly sir" seems unnatural.
You tell us Charles body goes numb, how do we know that?
The waitress says "Most certainly sir" seems unnatural.
You tell us Charles body goes numb, how do we know that?
Brendan Stewart
Member
Thanks for your comments guys.
STYLZ, you're spot on. I am indeed a fight club fan
.
And yes Jacky, i have seen and really enjoyed Sin City.
At the moment i'm focusing on my writing skills and "tightening" up the script. When i'm happy with the script i would definitely love to shoot it.
Thanks again for the tips and ideas guys.
Any more people willing to comment?
STYLZ, you're spot on. I am indeed a fight club fan
.And yes Jacky, i have seen and really enjoyed Sin City.
At the moment i'm focusing on my writing skills and "tightening" up the script. When i'm happy with the script i would definitely love to shoot it.
Thanks again for the tips and ideas guys.
Any more people willing to comment?
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David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
Suggested NEW Logline: A psychological thriller delving into the mind of a serial killer who gets caught up in the limelight of the media.
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
"INT. HOUSE - NIGHT" is not an adequate description. Is this little girl sleeping on top of the kitchen table? Try "INT. LITTLE GIRL'S BEDROOM - NIGHT".
Follow that with a quick description -- at least tell us that the little girl is in bed, covers pulled up, sleeping. THEN she awakes to the sound of thunder. Right now we have no visual at all.
Follow that with a quick description -- at least tell us that the little girl is in bed, covers pulled up, sleeping. THEN she awakes to the sound of thunder. Right now we have no visual at all.
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
CHANGE SCENES!!!
Wow, this is my biggest pet peeve. We open a scene in one room, then describe a character leaving that room, walking down the hall, and going into another room -- and we don't CHANGE THE SCENE.
Every time the camera moves into a different room, it's a new scene.
"INT. UPSTAIRS HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS"
The little girl walks down the hall to the door of her parents' bedroom. She opens the door and steps in.
"INT. PARENTS' BEDROOM - CONTINUOUS"
Etc etc.
Wow, this is my biggest pet peeve. We open a scene in one room, then describe a character leaving that room, walking down the hall, and going into another room -- and we don't CHANGE THE SCENE.
Every time the camera moves into a different room, it's a new scene.
"INT. UPSTAIRS HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS"
The little girl walks down the hall to the door of her parents' bedroom. She opens the door and steps in.
"INT. PARENTS' BEDROOM - CONTINUOUS"
Etc etc.
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
"Blood’s sprayed across the room, 2 bodies lie motionless on
the bed." First of all, this should be two sentences -- or at least connected with "and".
I prefer "Blood is sprayed" as opposed to "Blood's sprayed", but that's just me. But NEVER use a numeral like this. It should be "two bodies lie motionless".
Incidentally, numbers should always be spelled out in dialoge too. A character should say "Number 16 Maple Street", but rather "Number Sixteen Maple Street". Even phone numbers should be "five-five-five, two-three-seven-eight". This also helps if there's a specific way you want the character to say the number -- like "five-five-five, twenty-three seventy-eight". But I digress...
the bed." First of all, this should be two sentences -- or at least connected with "and".
I prefer "Blood is sprayed" as opposed to "Blood's sprayed", but that's just me. But NEVER use a numeral like this. It should be "two bodies lie motionless".
Incidentally, numbers should always be spelled out in dialoge too. A character should say "Number 16 Maple Street", but rather "Number Sixteen Maple Street". Even phone numbers should be "five-five-five, two-three-seven-eight". This also helps if there's a specific way you want the character to say the number -- like "five-five-five, twenty-three seventy-eight". But I digress...
Brendan Stewart
Member
You're right, its terrible. Any ideas?
I find it very difficult writing log lines.
Another good point. I'm on my second draft fixing up all my stupid mistakes like that. I have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
Another mistake that i shouldn't have made. Thanks
Thanks for the pointers. After finishing my draft i found out that all numbers under 10 should be spelt out?
Also my grammer is terrible, should have payed some attention in school (shouldn't have dropped out either)
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
***SPOILER ALERT!***
It's a "newspaper", not a "news paper".
What is a "neat cut guy"? What does that mean? "Clean cut" I get, but "neat cut"?
Newspaper articles aren't generally written with bad grammar.
Mentioning Britney Spears in rehab is going to date your film. Worse, how will your film be received if at some point Spears were to die? I pity the poor producer whose film is just now ready to sell, but a character in it is saying, "Hey, I saw Heath Ledger in Starbucks yesterday!" See what I mean?
"Charles, followed by Cheslar exit the diner." Should be "exits".
Why do you wait to describe the attire of Charles and Cheslar until the next scene when they're leaving the diner? If their attire is important, then it should be described when we first meet them.
"Who is he, the f---ing president?" This is a completely unnecessary line in the action. It is not anything that can be conveyed to the audience in any way.
"Charles turns on the radio. Cheslar stares blankly out his passenger window momentarily, then lights up a cigarette." Okay, another pet peeve of mine -- where did the cigarette come from? You need to describe the action. He reaches into his pocket (which pocket?), pulls out a pack of cigarettes, removes one from the pack. He puts the pack back in his pocket and pulls out a lighter, as he sticks the cigarette into his mouth. Fires up the lighter and lights the cigarette. Okay, maybe not THAT detailed. But your words on the page have to take up enough space to match the time taken up by the action you're describing. And you have to eliminate confusion -- were the cigs in his pocket? In the glove box? Rubber-banded to the sunvisor?
"household items", not "house hold items".
The police sure do release a lot of important details about a murder that just occurred a few hours before.
BTW, unless there's more than one character named Charles in this story, there's no need to make his character line say "CHARLES ALEXANDER" -- simply "CHARLES" will be fine.
"INT. BMW - NIGHT
"Charles pulls his head back in the window. 20 feet directly in front of him is a man crossing the road. The man turns and sees the speeding vehicle. He’s hypnotised just like a deer in headlights. Collision is immanent. BANG, the man smashes into the car and catapults off the windshield landing 10 feet away."
"Twenty feet", not "20 feet". Who is hypnotized? Charles or the pedestrian? "Imminent", not "immanent". (Where's spellcheck when you need it?) "Ten feet", not "10 feet".
"Charles skids to a complete stop 10 metres up the road." Ten, not 10. And why is it suddenly metres when in the last paragraph it was feet??
"EXT. STREETS - NIGHT" More than one street? And still don't know whether we're talking city streets or country roads.
"And what do you suppose I do?" Did you mean "And what do you SUGGEST I do?"
"INT. BMW - NIGHT - PRESENT DAY" Again, where is the BMW? Description of their location is needed.
"They pull up at a set of traffic lights. We zoom in and focus on the red traffic light. The camera blurs out the detail." Don't tell the director and editor how to do their jobs. If you're going to be director and editor, fine -- but this is annoying for actors and others to read.
"INT. APPARTMENT BUILDING - NIGHT
Again, went from the lounge room to the bedroom without changing scenes.
It's an interesting story. Just needs the details and mechanics of formatting worked out. And the spelling/grammar corrected.
Good luck!
It's a "newspaper", not a "news paper".
What is a "neat cut guy"? What does that mean? "Clean cut" I get, but "neat cut"?
Newspaper articles aren't generally written with bad grammar.
Mentioning Britney Spears in rehab is going to date your film. Worse, how will your film be received if at some point Spears were to die? I pity the poor producer whose film is just now ready to sell, but a character in it is saying, "Hey, I saw Heath Ledger in Starbucks yesterday!" See what I mean?
"Charles, followed by Cheslar exit the diner." Should be "exits".
Why do you wait to describe the attire of Charles and Cheslar until the next scene when they're leaving the diner? If their attire is important, then it should be described when we first meet them.
"Who is he, the f---ing president?" This is a completely unnecessary line in the action. It is not anything that can be conveyed to the audience in any way.
"Charles turns on the radio. Cheslar stares blankly out his passenger window momentarily, then lights up a cigarette." Okay, another pet peeve of mine -- where did the cigarette come from? You need to describe the action. He reaches into his pocket (which pocket?), pulls out a pack of cigarettes, removes one from the pack. He puts the pack back in his pocket and pulls out a lighter, as he sticks the cigarette into his mouth. Fires up the lighter and lights the cigarette. Okay, maybe not THAT detailed. But your words on the page have to take up enough space to match the time taken up by the action you're describing. And you have to eliminate confusion -- were the cigs in his pocket? In the glove box? Rubber-banded to the sunvisor?
"household items", not "house hold items".
The police sure do release a lot of important details about a murder that just occurred a few hours before.
BTW, unless there's more than one character named Charles in this story, there's no need to make his character line say "CHARLES ALEXANDER" -- simply "CHARLES" will be fine.
"INT. BMW - NIGHT
A younger Charles is at the wheel, obviously drunk he
speeds down the road." Road? What road? City street? Deserted country road? More details are needed here."Charles pulls his head back in the window. 20 feet directly in front of him is a man crossing the road. The man turns and sees the speeding vehicle. He’s hypnotised just like a deer in headlights. Collision is immanent. BANG, the man smashes into the car and catapults off the windshield landing 10 feet away."
"Twenty feet", not "20 feet". Who is hypnotized? Charles or the pedestrian? "Imminent", not "immanent". (Where's spellcheck when you need it?) "Ten feet", not "10 feet".
"Charles skids to a complete stop 10 metres up the road." Ten, not 10. And why is it suddenly metres when in the last paragraph it was feet??
"EXT. STREETS - NIGHT" More than one street? And still don't know whether we're talking city streets or country roads.
"And what do you suppose I do?" Did you mean "And what do you SUGGEST I do?"
"INT. BMW - NIGHT - PRESENT DAY" Again, where is the BMW? Description of their location is needed.
"They pull up at a set of traffic lights. We zoom in and focus on the red traffic light. The camera blurs out the detail." Don't tell the director and editor how to do their jobs. If you're going to be director and editor, fine -- but this is annoying for actors and others to read.
"INT. APPARTMENT BUILDING - NIGHT
Charles enters the building, he walks up the stairs. He reaches the photographers flat. The door’s unlocked, he enters quietly. He creeps through the house. The bedroom door swings open, Charles hides against the wall. It’s the photographer." Once again, CHANGE SCENES. You've gone into the building, walked up stairs to another floor, gone to the apt door, gone inside the apt (living room, I suppose) -- each of these needs to be its own scene.
"The photographer is dressed as ****ing Tarzan. Of all people, why ****ing Tarzan?" Again, this is reaction that isn't being conveyed to the audience. Something simple would be better. "The photograher is dressed as Tarzan. His appearance confuses Charles."
The beauty told the photog to bring her a drink. Where did the photog go? It wasn't described. For all I know, the photog is still standing in the bedroom doorway as Charles goes walking into the bedroom.
"A naked young beauty is lying face down on the bed, she’s dressed as Jane (Jane from Tarzan)." Is she naked? Or is she dressed as Jane?
The photog turns and runs from the bedroom and is halfway across the lounge room when Charles shoots him in the back of the head. Did Charles run after him? Did he manage that great shot while still standing in the bedroom? I'm confused.
Why does Charles bother picking up the knife when he's got a perfectly good gun to kill Cheslar with?
"Charles turns around and picks up his revolver off the coffee table." When did Charles put the revolver ON the coffee table??
"Cheslar stabs Charles in the head with a screwdriver." This stylish GQ guy in his impeccably tailored suit is going to kill Charles with a screwdriver??? Where did the screwdriver come from? Did Cheslar bring it? If he was planning to kill Charles, why didn't he bring a more suitable weapon?
"The photographer is dressed as ****ing Tarzan. Of all people, why ****ing Tarzan?" Again, this is reaction that isn't being conveyed to the audience. Something simple would be better. "The photograher is dressed as Tarzan. His appearance confuses Charles."
The beauty told the photog to bring her a drink. Where did the photog go? It wasn't described. For all I know, the photog is still standing in the bedroom doorway as Charles goes walking into the bedroom.
"A naked young beauty is lying face down on the bed, she’s dressed as Jane (Jane from Tarzan)." Is she naked? Or is she dressed as Jane?
The photog turns and runs from the bedroom and is halfway across the lounge room when Charles shoots him in the back of the head. Did Charles run after him? Did he manage that great shot while still standing in the bedroom? I'm confused.
Why does Charles bother picking up the knife when he's got a perfectly good gun to kill Cheslar with?
"Charles turns around and picks up his revolver off the coffee table." When did Charles put the revolver ON the coffee table??
"Cheslar stabs Charles in the head with a screwdriver." This stylish GQ guy in his impeccably tailored suit is going to kill Charles with a screwdriver??? Where did the screwdriver come from? Did Cheslar bring it? If he was planning to kill Charles, why didn't he bring a more suitable weapon?
Again, went from the lounge room to the bedroom without changing scenes.
It's an interesting story. Just needs the details and mechanics of formatting worked out. And the spelling/grammar corrected.
Good luck!
Lt_Col_Wade
Active member
Youre a fan of Fight Club? You dont say...
Sorry, I jest. I think your script has potential, but as it stands definitely needs some tweaks.
As I was reading through, on page 2 I found myself saying wouldn't it be funny (and not ha ha funny) If Cheslar and Charles were the same person... then on the very next page you confirmed it.
If you really want to improve this script, I think you need to do a lot of work with the story. My suggestion would be to scrap the whole 'OMG theyre the same person!' twist. Its been done, and better. By now, that twist has gone off the cliche deep end (Secret Window anyone?).
The thing about twist endings is they have to feel gratifying for the audience. At least for me, I saw this coming from page 2, and it was literally painful to watch it unfold from there. The other thing is that to have a really strong story, the point of the story cant be the twist. The twist should serve to complicate/emphasize/draw new meaning from whatever you want the real focus of the piece to be. Unfortunately, I didnt get that here.
If youre absolutely wed to the idea of this story, I think you can still make it work - but try and get much more subtle about it. As far as making the twist gratifying, try planting less obvious details. Definitely change Cheslar's name - it isnt even a name after all. Also work on defining him - the more believable Cheslar is as an actual person, the less well expect the twist. The clues you drop should make sense at the time, but in the context of the twist ending should make complete sense given the audiences new perspective. Things like Cheslar appearing out of nowhere at a crash site and encouraging Charles to kill his victim is a dead giveaway, its not a clue. You pretty much give away the twist right there, especially given the other 'clues.'
Secondly, do some real thinking about what you want this story to be about - what is the theme? what should an audience take from this? what does it all mean? - and then try and see how you can work the twist to serve this purpose.
Sorry if this seems a bit harsh, but in context a lot of it depends on what you want to do with this. You said you wanted to shoot it. If this means getting your buddies together and shooting something just for the sake of doing it, tweak it a bit and go for it. If this is something youre planning on sinking money into and going to festivals with, you need to do a lot more work, and most of it involve your story and structure. Something like this just won't capture that type of audience.
A few other minor things - I definitely agree in taking out the Britney Spears spot. Again, not because of edginess, but it immediately dates your work. Also, I wasn't crazy about the nickname "Mr. Smiley." Usually, these names come from the media, and this hardly seems like a frightening/grabbing enough name to pull readers. I get that its ironic, but its a bit too much so.
I think a lot of the feedback here has been spot on as far as formatting goes - definitely keep that in mind as well. Sorry if this seems rough, but if you really want to work on script writing as a form, you not only need to pay attention to the formatting etc., but your story structure and the story itself. Youre a strong writer so keep on going and revising!
Sorry, I jest. I think your script has potential, but as it stands definitely needs some tweaks.
As I was reading through, on page 2 I found myself saying wouldn't it be funny (and not ha ha funny) If Cheslar and Charles were the same person... then on the very next page you confirmed it.
If you really want to improve this script, I think you need to do a lot of work with the story. My suggestion would be to scrap the whole 'OMG theyre the same person!' twist. Its been done, and better. By now, that twist has gone off the cliche deep end (Secret Window anyone?).
The thing about twist endings is they have to feel gratifying for the audience. At least for me, I saw this coming from page 2, and it was literally painful to watch it unfold from there. The other thing is that to have a really strong story, the point of the story cant be the twist. The twist should serve to complicate/emphasize/draw new meaning from whatever you want the real focus of the piece to be. Unfortunately, I didnt get that here.
If youre absolutely wed to the idea of this story, I think you can still make it work - but try and get much more subtle about it. As far as making the twist gratifying, try planting less obvious details. Definitely change Cheslar's name - it isnt even a name after all. Also work on defining him - the more believable Cheslar is as an actual person, the less well expect the twist. The clues you drop should make sense at the time, but in the context of the twist ending should make complete sense given the audiences new perspective. Things like Cheslar appearing out of nowhere at a crash site and encouraging Charles to kill his victim is a dead giveaway, its not a clue. You pretty much give away the twist right there, especially given the other 'clues.'
Secondly, do some real thinking about what you want this story to be about - what is the theme? what should an audience take from this? what does it all mean? - and then try and see how you can work the twist to serve this purpose.
Sorry if this seems a bit harsh, but in context a lot of it depends on what you want to do with this. You said you wanted to shoot it. If this means getting your buddies together and shooting something just for the sake of doing it, tweak it a bit and go for it. If this is something youre planning on sinking money into and going to festivals with, you need to do a lot more work, and most of it involve your story and structure. Something like this just won't capture that type of audience.
A few other minor things - I definitely agree in taking out the Britney Spears spot. Again, not because of edginess, but it immediately dates your work. Also, I wasn't crazy about the nickname "Mr. Smiley." Usually, these names come from the media, and this hardly seems like a frightening/grabbing enough name to pull readers. I get that its ironic, but its a bit too much so.
I think a lot of the feedback here has been spot on as far as formatting goes - definitely keep that in mind as well. Sorry if this seems rough, but if you really want to work on script writing as a form, you not only need to pay attention to the formatting etc., but your story structure and the story itself. Youre a strong writer so keep on going and revising!
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
When writing a story, a column, an article, etc., then all number under 10 should be spelled out. But in a script, ALL numbers should be spelled out -- every single one. First of all, it eliminates confusion and ambiguity, making it clearer for talent both in front of and behind the camera. Second, it's part of the whole that makes 1 page of script = 1 minute on-screen. Always spell out numbers in Action or Dialogue.
Good luck!
Brendan Stewart
Member
Thanks for the great comments. Especially chapelgrovefilms for really pulling apart my script.
I totally agree with you Lt_Col_Wade. Even before i started to write the script i knew it wasn't an original idea. Reading back over my draft i noticed that my story contains many holes. The twist is way to obvious and the overall structure is crap.
But all i can do is practice until i get it right. I'm nearly finished rewriting the script and will probably repost it. I have taken everyones comments and tips onboard and have tried to raise the bar. It's a challenging process........
I totally agree with you Lt_Col_Wade. Even before i started to write the script i knew it wasn't an original idea. Reading back over my draft i noticed that my story contains many holes. The twist is way to obvious and the overall structure is crap.
But all i can do is practice until i get it right. I'm nearly finished rewriting the script and will probably repost it. I have taken everyones comments and tips onboard and have tried to raise the bar. It's a challenging process........