Good Studio Microphone? Condenser VS Dynamic VS Phantom

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Well-known member
Hey guys, Im looking to get a good studio recording microphone, for recording vocals, instruments, ADR, but want it all in one mic if possible. I have the room calibrated and is great for recording now, just missing the mic.

I would be going into a Presonus Firebox Via 1/4". May need an xlr to 1/4" adapter for the mic though, if thats not a huge loss of quality.

I want to stay low budget, but also get a high professional sound quality.

Heres a link I found to guitar center microphones, not sure in what price range or category to look though, thanks.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Microphones-and-Wireless-Live-Sound.gc
 
Why would you use a 1/4 -inch input on the firebox? Professional mics use more-reliable XLR connections, and if your mic needs phantom power, only the XLRs will supply it.

You need to tell us more about what you'll be recording... and how you'll be doing it. If you want a good all-around mic, something like an AKG C414 will serve competently for almost all purposes. But will you ever need more than one mic at a time? Will you need a stereo pair? A wide range of vocals? Will you need good separation, or are you sure to be tracking only one thing at a time?

It's not trivial! But I can say that when I first started recording professionally many years ago, a C414 stere pair was able to suit quite a wide range of needs. A stereo pair of Oktava MK012's with all three caps will serve well for many needs as well, but are not great for close-mic'ed vocals. What's your price range, pal? That would help a lot also!

Your link to GC is to "Live Sound" microphones - many retailers use this category for handheld and stage mics, as opposed to "Studio Mics". Live Sound mics are designed for different criteria (durability, rejection, handling noise, etc.). If you're looking for good studio mics, check a different section! Also, a good pro shop like Sweetwater will be a better place to look (and ask questions!) than GC.
 
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Im looking for 1 mic for recording vocals, instruments, ADR, and only want to use that 1 mic at a time. I want this all for post. For recording an artist vocals for a song, ADR, instruments, etc. recording only 1 track at a time.

The presonus firebox interface only allows to use 1/4" in and out, no xlr at all, so that is what I have to work with. Though a mic xlr cable is fine, i just slap on a xlr to 1/4" converter, or will I really notice a quality loss?

I will check out the AKG C414, thanks.

Well I see mics on GC for $300 and less, and think I can do a good quality professional recording with something of that nature, perhaps cheaper say $100 or $200?

How much is that AKG C414 ? Perhaps used?
 
I would suggest finding a firewire interface that has XLR support, their are plenty out there in the same price range as the firebox. If you are willing to spend the extra money I would suggest a Tascam FW-1082 ($599), motorized faders and it seconds as a controller for FCP and a few other video apps along with DAW programs.

If you are looking for an entry level condenser perhaps an AKG Perception 200 ($160) Shure KSM27 ($299) or if you just want something inexpensive MXL V63M ($80). Keep in mind though, when it comes to audio you get what you pay for.
 
I've got a Neumann TLM-103, it's awesome for everything you listed but around $1,100.00-$1,200.00 with the mount.

Dan
 
1) The Presonus Firebox has 2 XLR inputs.... perhaps you have something different?

2) YOU NEED PHANTOM POWER FOR CONDENSER MICS and (aside from the MicroTrack, AFAIK) no devices supply phantom power through TRS inputs. It's a bad idea.

3) On most devices, 1/4 ins are eithner line level or instrument level - hi-z. These will not work so well with low-z mics.

4) TLM 103, while a nice mic, is cardioid only and not the best choice if you only have 1 mic in the closet. A multi-pattern mic will be more useful. The TLM-127 is sorta the multi-pattern version of the 103, but I think the C414 is generally better than either of these as an "all-around" mic, and cheaper.

5) Anyway, looking at your title, Clint, I'll just say just to be clear that for general studio work such as you've described, you definitely want a phantom-powered condenser. And I'd say you want a multi-pattern mic if you'll just have one. I'd skip the cheapo brands outright; on the low end look for something from Audio Technica, Shure, Rode. MAYBE Studio Projects... but check 'em out first! They have both good and bad mics. From there, you have mics in the $1,000 range... these will cost more, but also be useful for a lifetime! I'd say you should definitely check back here after you've investigated a little more, before you buy anything!

6) If by some chance you really do have an interface with only 1/4 ins and outs... buy a different one. It would be throwing good money after bad to buy a mic tailored to a crappy interface.

7) The C414 has been around for decades in various forms, and there are plenty of used ones around... in general they seem to age well, but make sure you're getting one in good working condition!

8) Keep in mind that even single instruments are often miked with more than one mic at a time...
 
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A bit of a clarification, regarding the thread title: Condensor and dynamic are two different types of microphone, while Phantom is a method of powering microphones. Most condensor mics require phantom power, although some use T-12 power or more specialized power supplies. With very few exceptions, dynamic mics do not require external power.

According to the Presonus website, the firebox has combination 1/4" and XLR inputs, so you shouldn't need that XLR to 1/4" cable. In fact, if your using the firebox to provide phantom power, you should avoid pluggin mics in via a ballanced 1/4" plug. "Hot patching" a phantom-powered line with a TRS plug is a good way to fry a mic. Stick to XLR cables, and you'll be fine.

As for ADR, consider using the same mic model that was used during production. Matching the mic will make it much easier to blend the ADR with the production dialogue.

The AKG C414 is a decent mic and a solid investment, but the Neumann TLM 103 is worth every penny. For ADR, voiceover and narration (foley and effects, too) I really like the Sennheiser MKH416, but it wouldn't be my first choice for musical instruments or vocalists.
 
Tascam connections.
http://www.audiomidi.com/assets/5917_tas_fw1082_rear.jpg

How can I monitor my 5.1 mix out of here? It only has 8 balanced 1/4" in, I need 8 balanced 1/4" out to monitor my 5.1 mix. Guess I forgot to mention I want to mix 5.1 as well.

So, I looked into digi design and found this...
http://www.savedbytechnology.com/2003/digi_002_rack_large.jpg

The Digi 002 will be perfect, though that is very pricey, the firebox was only $300 and does 8 channels out (perfect for 5.1 mix monitoring via 1/4"), and supports Cubase, I think Digi products support only protools correct?

I dont know, this seems to be perfect match for me, pc based 5.1 mixing in cubase and also recording ADR, Artist Recording Songs, Instruments all using a condenser mic, I just hit the blue 48V phantom power button on the front and can use condenser mics.
http://www.digitalplayroom.com/presonus/images/firebox_lg.jpg


- Ullanta
2) YOU NEED PHANTOM POWER FOR CONDENSER MICS and (aside from the MicroTrack, AFAIK) no devices supply phantom power through TRS inputs. It's a bad idea.

Isnt that fine on the firebox for me to use an condenser mic even though its 1/4" input?

Why use xlr instead of 1/4" input as in the firebox inputs 1 and 2?
 
Hang on, can I use a shotgun mic? You guys are saying the Sennheiser 400 shotgun mic is good for in studio post work? I thought it is only for on the field? Well I have a Sennheiser 300 shotgun mic, though its 1/8" male output, can I simply connect a xlr converter to it and use it to record in post? Why not right?
 
1/4" connection = consumer

XLR connection = Pro

You can hear the difference - better noise rejection - cable can be longer

The Senn 300 is a plastic toy, had one years ago, it is only good compared to a built in camera mic, otherwise, of little use

I have an AKG Perception 200 and it is a decent studio mic. The Perception 100 is identical except for a 10db pad switch and only $99. It's probably your best bet in that
price range. But remember- XLR only or you will regret it!
 
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SMuir said:
The AKG C414 is a decent mic and a solid investment, but the Neumann TLM 103 is worth every penny. For ADR, voiceover and narration (foley and effects, too) I really like the Sennheiser MKH416, but it wouldn't be my first choice for musical instruments or vocalists.
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken but I think my absolute favorite singer, Alison Krauss, did some magazine ads a few years back with her singing into the C414. Can't argue with her, she is the best so I am sure that the AKG is good or she wouldn't have endorsed it. She is a great producer as well as singer and fiddle player so I really do trust her opinions.

The big deal about the TLM-103 is that for most people without really well insulated sound booths, it has better off-axis rejection than any other mic on the market. I have recorded really great VOs using nothing more than C-stands, sand bags an sound blankets. It also has lower self-noise than almost any mic on the market. These two characteristics make it a VERY good VO mic as well as good for recording acoustic instruments. It's clean, smooth and beautifully detailed. I am sure that the AKG sounds nice too, I just recommend the Neumann because I have recorded with mine for about 10 years and love it, it makes everything and everyone sound good.

Sennheiser 416? Ehh...I guess it falls into his request for an all around, plus you can stick it onto a boompole and use it for shoots which you can't really do with any of the large diaphragm studio condensers. But for me, the 416 lost it's allure years ago. It's okay but I like the MKH-60 much better, always have.

Best,

Dan
 
Thanks Mainstream. Quick question though,

For monitoring my 5.1 mix, is 1/4" balanced okay? Or do you really recommend getting a 6 channel xlr output interface? Do you know of any?

For some reason all these pro interfaces only have 1/4" balanced out,
http://www.savedbytechnology.com/2003/digi_002_rack_large.jpg

Whats the deal with that, those are $1,0000 interfaces yet only have consumer out? I dont understand that, nor can I find xlr monitoring out (6 channel at least).
 
1/4" Balanced TRS/TS is not exclusively consumer, just in the realm of mics/input. Plenty of Pro grade +4 connections use 1/4" TRS connectors. You will do fine with using 1/4" TRS cable to your monitors. I just hope you have enough cash in your budget to afford monitors for 5.1 mixing, because there is absolutely no way you can get 1 monitor for under $500 and have it be decent. And you need several for 5.1 monitoring.

In your budget you might do well as far as mics are concerned to look at a Studio Projects C1. it has its cons, but is a pretty good microphone for the price. But my real recommendation that any studio engineer will back me up on, is a large diaphragm dynamic, specifically the Shure Sm7/sm7b or the Electro Voice RE-20; fantastic multipurpose mics. One more worth considering is the Kel Audio Hm-1 and Hm-2d, one of each, or a pair of either in your price range.

I firmly stand behind a Shure SM7, for what it is worth.
 
Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez said:
...
The presonus firebox interface only allows to use 1/4" in and out, no xlr at all, so that is what I have to work with. Though a mic xlr cable is fine, i just slap on a xlr to 1/4" converter, or will I really notice a quality loss?

I will check out the AKG C414, thanks.

...
How much is that AKG C414 ? Perhaps used?
Click to expand...

AKG C414 ~ $1000

1/4" TRS connectors are balanced line level or instrument inputs - even with a 1/4 to XLR adapter they will NOT accept a microphone level input. If you "slap on a xlr to 1/4 converter" onto an XLR mic cable to plug it into a 1/4 TRS input you'll not just notice a quality loss, you WILL notice a total signal loss and will hear .... absolute silence. But the Firebox has two front panel xlr mic inputs with phantom, why are you ignoring them?
 
What's with the Tascam? I thought you were using a FireBox? This is getting confusing. Boththe Presonus Firebox and Tascam 1082 you show have XLR inputs for mics.

The TLM103 is indeed a good mic for vocals and VO; as are large diaphragm mics mentioned. But for the wide variety of uses you're looking for, a multipattern condenser will likely suit you better. The TLM 103 isalso not what I'd call a "transparent" mic, which can be a limitation in some scenarios. But, there are many opinions here. Just make sure whoever you listen to understands all of your various needs.

1/4-inch vs XLR is not a consumer/pro distinction; balanced vs. unbalanced is what is the important distinction. 1/4-inch connections can be balanced mono (TRS), unbalanced mono (TS), or unbalanced stereo (TRS). XLR connections are more reliable and rugged. In general, aside from a few special-purpose mics, all good mics use XLR connectors and all good preamp devices use XLR connectors. Line inputs and outputs on high-quality gear may be XLR or TRS balanced.
 
Derrick_SA said:
get yourself the M-Audio Sputnik microphone, IT'S ABSOLUTELY AWESOME !!!!

- Derrick
Click to expand...

Give the man a cigar...we have a winner!

Here's my thoughts, from the perspective of a very lengthy career as a studio recording engineer (see tedspencerrecording.com for details):

-The M-Audio Sputnik is hands down the best value in a large diaphragm, multi-pattern, pad-equipped studio condenser mic I know of, and if I may be forgiven for saying so, I know a lot : ) I have two, bought for $418 each from Alto Music in NY. They're unbelievable for the money, and pretty darn unbelievable even aside from the money. They held up *really* well against one of my most cherished mics: a $4500 Neumann U87 with a 3 micron capsule mod by the legenday Stephen Paul (may he rest in peace). It's a near toss-up as to which I prefer on my voice (and others' too).

-The AKG 414 (I have two) is also an excellent mic, and a staple in every major studio anywhere, but in the comparison I mentioned above, which also included the favorite of my two 414s, it didn't come particularly close to the Sputnik. Nonetheless, it's a great, workhorse mic that would undoubtedly be preferred for certain things.

-The Neumann TLM-103 is also an excellent choice. I don't own one, but have used them numerous times in my studio and elsewhere. They aren't multipattern, true, but still a very versatile mic. The main issue I have with them is a strong tendency toward an accentuated top end. It's a hot, bright mic, and that's fine for many things, but if you're going to buy only one mic to cover all bases, something more neutral would probably be better. It will just be too crisp sounding some of the time.

-The RE20 and SM7 - hugely popular in radio and TV stations, and...not my favorites. Can't argue with their widespread acceptance, and they are among the best dynamic mics ever made, but for me, a fine large diaphragm condenser is always preferable as an all purpose studio mic.

-No mic will be ideal for everything. If there's one other mic that's a no-brainer to fill out a starter mic locker, it would be the Shure SM57 or 58 for around $100. It will neatly cover much of what a large cap condenser doesn't, for very cheap.

-An alternative to the Firebox (never tried one) might be the admittedly more expensive (but much cheaper than an 003) Digidesign MBox 2 Pro, for $700. It has 2 mic pres and 8 outputs, so a 5.1 mix should be doable. it also has Midi I/O which may be quite handy.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MBox2Pro/

Last time I checked, all Digidesign interfaces work with third-party DAW software, such as Cubase. You'd also get Pro Tools LE software included, which is the industry standard everywhere. Aside from the 32 track limit and a few other LE-specific limitations, it's the real thing.

So the total for all of this, aside from cables, stands, speakers and miscellaneous bits might be:

MBox 2 Pro: $700
M-Audio Sputnik: $418
Shure SM57: $100

Total: $1218

A better quality mic preamp and a compressor (or an all in one unit) should be on your short list of coming attractions, but to get started, this should serve you pretty well.
 
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Phantom is not really a mic its just the power. "Phantom Power"
 
I own the tlm 103 and have used the 414 quite a bit. I would say that as far as quality they are pretty even. The Nuemann has a jump at about 12k that brightens it up and it has a really smooth mid to low mid sound. The 414 I would say has a flatter freq response which could be better depending on what your recording. I probably would buy the 414 if I were to go back due to it's polar pattern variety. IF your only going to buy one mic the 414 would be a great choice.
 
Hey, Ted - you're clearly taken with the Sputnik! Have you had a chance to try the Solaris, its solid-state brother?
 
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