How should I get my exposure right?

HBlack

HBlack

Underage Member
Question is in the title. Should I make the bright areas as bright as possible before I start getting zebras and alter it in post, or do it by eye and darken it as much as I think it should be?

Also, to adjust exposure I've been choosing the appropriate shutter speed for the scene (48 or higher), and using in-camera ND filters while fine tuning with the aperture, and trying to keep it as open as possible. Is this a good way of doing it? I've heard that quality can degrade if the aperture is all the way open (1.6 on a 1/4'" 3 CMOS HDV camera).
 
I take it that from your question that you are concerned about the highlights and shadows in your scene. This is partly a lighting question, many DPs have different methods of lighting, some set key first, other set ambient first.

I like to set my ambient lights first. I light the area for the low end of my exposure range. For instance if I want my subject to light to f5.6 with the HVX I light the area to a f2.0. This insures I always have some detail in my shadows. Of course if your going noir and know you want your shadows crushed you would not do this.

Then I set my key to an f5.6 level. As the primary light it may be justified by some light source in the scene, I really don't worry about that much I just look at it and ask myself will this make the audience lose attention because of the source of the light? rarely will you answer that yes, so I place the key where it will best illuminate the talent.

The I set fill somewhere inbetween, depending on how much contrast I want.

After that I evaluate the eye lighting and clothing value. Clothing and skin are very different reflectivity so I usually end up taking some light off of the clothing area.

From there I set back light and kickers, these are usually a little hotter then the key, but not much, and can be less depending on the look I'm trying to achieve.

Finally I look at the background and add or takeaway light to achieve the contrast and relative brightness I need to create depth and ambience. I never let the highlights blow out, personal preference. I know you see it alot in hollywood movies and when I do I think "must have been a lazy crew" again personal preference.

Now as for the camera, In a controlled lighting setup like this, it's easy I set the exposure for the key, f5.6. But what if your outdoors or have direct sunlight to deal with? Really my proceedure is the same. I take the hotest spot and make that my ambient, then I bring the rest of the light values up to maintain the corrrect ratios and ND the camera until I get the exposure to a f5.6
 
Gopher_Greene said:
I take it that from your question that you are concerned about the highlights and shadows in your scene. This is partly a lighting question, many DPs have different methods of lighting, some set key first, other set ambient first.

I like to set my ambient lights first. I light the area for the low end of my exposure range. For instance if I want my subject to light to f5.6 with the HVX I light the area to a f2.0. This insures I always have some detail in my shadows. Of course if your going noir and know you want your shadows crushed you would not do this.

Then I set my key to an f5.6 level. As the primary light it may be justified by some light source in the scene, I really don't worry about that much I just look at it and ask myself will this make the audience lose attention because of the source of the light? rarely will you answer that yes, so I place the key where it will best illuminate the talent.

The I set fill somewhere inbetween, depending on how much contrast I want.

After that I evaluate the eye lighting and clothing value. Clothing and skin are very different reflectivity so I usually end up taking some light off of the clothing area.

From there I set back light and kickers, these are usually a little hotter then the key, but not much, and can be less depending on the look I'm trying to achieve.

Finally I look at the background and add or takeaway light to achieve the contrast and relative brightness I need to create depth and ambience. I never let the highlights blow out, personal preference. I know you see it alot in hollywood movies and when I do I think "must have been a lazy crew" again personal preference.

Now as for the camera, In a controlled lighting setup like this, it's easy I set the exposure for the key, f5.6. But what if your outdoors or have direct sunlight to deal with? Really my proceedure is the same. I take the hotest spot and make that my ambient, then I bring the rest of the light values up to maintain the corrrect ratios and ND the camera until I get the exposure to a f5.6
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Good answer.

Truth about exposure is that it depends on the look you want. There are standards and then exceptions. Sometimes you want blowouts, sometimes you want crushed blacks, and sometimes you want neither. What I very much dislike are DP's who do not know what they want and shoot safe during productions to get the look in post. YUCK! They might as well just get a job as a colorist! (which is REALLY good pay btw)
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Good answer.

Truth about exposure is that it depends on the look you want. There are standards and then exceptions. Sometimes you want blowouts, sometimes you want crushed blacks, and sometimes you want neither. What I very much dislike are DP's who do not know what they want and shoot safe during productions to get the look in post. YUCK! They might as well just get a job as a colorist! (which is REALLY good pay btw)
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Strange, I've consistently heard that you should shoot safe and colour correct afterwards. So you're reccomending making your look with camera settings and lighting and sticking with it? Any particular reason?
 
Well I guess I am a young man living for the days of the old guard.

I absolutely hate relying on post production for something I could do in camera. I am a director of photography and if I am in principal photography without knowing my 'look', I am considerably unprepared. I like to get as much of my look in camera as I possibly can. Forgivable, are effects which are only possible in post.

This may just be me, but color correction is to finesse the look and film. I choose my filters, camera settings, and exposure in advance. I decide my creative choice regarding the look of the film and then I film it. I have lots of respect and admiration of older directors of photography who had to do almost all of the film look in camera.

Shooting 'safe' can sometimes get the desired effect, but sometimes cannot do the same job as in camera work. I also feel that shooting this way is a crutch for dp's who do not wish to commit to a creative decision.

I am not trying to sound condescending but I guess I feel that the magic and creative freedom the DoP has is being lost due to post production. There was once a magic, a very special magic, when a DP used glass filters, gelled lights, and used creative gags to create the on screen magic we all experienced.

The shooting safe method seems like a way to not commit to a creative vision and letting the magic develop on an NLE in a SFX house.

To end what will just continue to grow as a rant: Shoot safe if you do not know what you are doing or if you do not yet know what your desired look is. If you do know, do as much in camera as you can. You save money and time in post.
 
ideally you use a waveform monitor - exposure is not based on highlights - it is based on 18% grey (acutally 12% but 18 is the norm) - so at 5.6 an 18% grey reads as 18% exposed if the lighting is correct for 5.6. A light meter is calibrated to this. Although a light meter will help you get it close - the correct tool for video is a waveform monitor
 
18% grey means that 18% of your pixels should be somwhere btwn 30 and 70%? Can the waveform in FCP give you this info?
 
Any suggestions on how to acheive this for those who don't have anything other than their camera?
 
bogatyr said:
18% grey means that 18% of your pixels should be somwhere btwn 30 and 70%? Can the waveform in FCP give you this info?
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18% grey means 18% IRE on a waveform. If you expose a grey card properly then your wareform should should read a straight line at 18 assuming the card fills the frame.
 
Um . . . Guess! That is really all you can do without the waveform monitor. Because nothing is going to give you an actual reading. Don't feel bad doing this because there are a ton of people who rely completely on their exposure meter and they do a great job. It's just not the safest or most reliable way. There are programs that have these waveform monitors built in them so you can use these, but it is cumbersome to get your footage into the computer for each setup. BUT I would probably say worth it.
 
That's one thing that makes the new crop of Panasonic monitors so useful; they all have waveform monitors built in. Prior to that we used DV Rack/OnLocation as the lowest-cost way to always have a waveform monitor on hand.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Well I guess I am a young man living for the days of the old guard.

I absolutely hate relying on post production for something I could do in camera. I am a director of photography and if I am in principal photography without knowing my 'look', I am considerably unprepared. I like to get as much of my look in camera as I possibly can. Forgivable, are effects which are only possible in post.

This may just be me, but color correction is to finesse the look and film. I choose my filters, camera settings, and exposure in advance. I decide my creative choice regarding the look of the film and then I film it. I have lots of respect and admiration of older directors of photography who had to do almost all of the film look in camera.

Shooting 'safe' can sometimes get the desired effect, but sometimes cannot do the same job as in camera work. I also feel that shooting this way is a crutch for dp's who do not wish to commit to a creative decision.

I am not trying to sound condescending but I guess I feel that the magic and creative freedom the DoP has is being lost due to post production. There was once a magic, a very special magic, when a DP used glass filters, gelled lights, and used creative gags to create the on screen magic we all experienced.

The shooting safe method seems like a way to not commit to a creative vision and letting the magic develop on an NLE in a SFX house.

To end what will just continue to grow as a rant: Shoot safe if you do not know what you are doing or if you do not yet know what your desired look is. If you do know, do as much in camera as you can. You save money and time in post.
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This is almost an entirely different topic but I have to agree. And, honestly, doing color in post on small format Cameras with high compression codecs (HVX200 comes to mind) doesn't really seem like a good idea, to me. Once you start attacking the footage it brings the noise out, as opposed to getting it close to what you want in the first place before the compression hits it.
 
HBlack said:
Any suggestions on how to acheive this for those who don't have anything other than their camera?
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There is, but it is not perfered. The waveform monitor is the best measurement because your measuring what the sensor is actually captureing. Next is the spot meter, but it is some what of a wag, because video cameras don't have a true ASA value. Without either you can use your camera, provided it has an auto iris. Zoom in as much as possible and let the auto iris give you readings on the lightest, darkest and key. It is far from perfect but could save you some grief later.
 
People going on in here about whether to tackle the "look" in post or on set need to step back and look at the big picture - your picture. The idea is to make the best movie or motion picture you can. There are a LOT of variables involved in that, and your goal, whether it is DP or Color Correctionist or whatever, is to do the best job you can for that specific job. I work on a network television show, and to me, the DP and CC artist have a good thing going on, because, rather than being territorial, they work together, combine their strengths, and communicate to make the best product they can.

I will never hire a DP that tells me they will only do things this way or that way... I'd rather hire a DP that gets the creative process and works with me to capture the vision, wether in each specific case, it means doing it in camera, or doing it in post. You're doing the typical DP control it in production argument, boring.

On point: I've found it is better to be about 1/2 stop higher with the HVX, because you can crush blacks and mids in posts down to hide noise. But previous posts are absolutely right, going the other way, you will bring up a ton of noise.

Also, even if you want to blast out the whites, I would highly recommend NOT doing that, take them to 95 on your waveform if you want to, but if you blast them out, and... god forbid (lol) you do decide to do some CC in post, because you don't have that magic wizard DP from the previous post that can magically adjust Luma and Chroma continuity for editorial in his head while shooting, well, then you're going to want the flexibility to adjust that image without having a mushy white area. You can always blast it out in... post.

I think options are always a good way to go. I would hate to have to tell my client that I can't do this or that to their footage because the DP shot it a certain way.
 
A good way to go is to turn on your zebra stripes in your camera, set them at the level you want your key to be. The standard is 70 for flesh tones, so 70 is a good start. Then, make sure the key light on your actors is always zebra striping.

Another trick I have used outdoors is to set my stripes to 100, I then keep my eye out for one cloud or piece of sky that I always bring up to 100. You sacrifice blasting out a small piece of sky, but it helps keep your exposure fairly consistent if you are shooting from the hip.
 
zoostory said:
A good way to go is to turn on your zebra stripes in your camera, set them at the level you want your key to be. The standard is 70 for flesh tones, so 70 is a good start. Then, make sure the key light on your actors is always zebra striping.

Another trick I have used outdoors is to set my stripes to 100, I then keep my eye out for one cloud or piece of sky that I always bring up to 100. You sacrifice blasting out a small piece of sky, but it helps keep your exposure fairly consistent if you are shooting from the hip.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is the sort of thing I'm looking for. So I'll try to light it and adjust the camera settings so that skin is at 70 and as little as possible is at 100. Is this a good way of going about it?
 
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