Urgent advice needed on shooting on a beach! HELP!

T

tomperson

Active member
Hi all
I will be doing some shooting on a beach next week, and i'd like to ask a few question to the more experienced ones.

About the gig:
The subjects will be two caucasian playing guitar and singing.
The shot will be early in the morning (probably from half an hour before dawn to maybe a couple hours after)
HV20 in 25P, CINE mode

Q:
What I don't seem to get is how to make a coherent work with exposures and lighting. For example, if I expose close ups for the subjects skin (zebras @ 70 IRE) and other more panoramic shots for the environment (zebras @ 100 IRE), the sand will appear much darker on the close ups. And If I mix a shot 45 minutes after dawn with another 70 minutes afterwards, the lighting will have changed a lot. So, what are the standard practices in shooting situations such as these? How do you minimize the problems that may arise?

Q: We want to go for a rather gritty look on this one, maybe a bit burned out, like overexposed. Would you do it in post or in-camera? How?

Thanks for ANY help you could give me on this one!
 
1.) You said "exposures and lighting" but made no reference to any lights. What you need to do is equalize the exposure of the subject and the environment by either lighting or shading your subject to match the environment.

Easiest was it to buy a reflector and use it to reflect light from the sun to fill, or shade if needed.

As for the wides expose the setting correctly. Don't worry about the subjects.

2.)Do it in post! Always! If you over-expose in-camera then you nuke any information and you might, and probably will need. No reason to shoot yourself in the foot if you don't need too. Plus you'll have WAY more control in post.

Good luck!
 
Control the lighting change (from moving sun; dawn to daylight) with slight adjustments to the exposure, but remember lighting temperature and direction will change with time. If you are shooting a drastic difference it may be near impossible.

You could use a reflector to reflect light from the sun, if you want more. Usually sunlight hitting on the beach or snow, causes lots of bounced light already. Sometimes it is wise to use 'negative fill'. It depends on how you want your subject to look.

Dewy-db is right. Try to get your look in camera, but if it requires lots of over exposure, it would be best to do it in post in case you need that detail info for an unforeseen reason.

For example, if I expose close ups for the subjects skin (zebras @ 70 IRE) and other more panoramic shots for the environment (zebras @ 100 IRE), the sand will appear much darker on the close ups.
Click to expand...

Unless there is a major reason, if the skin tones are good in the closeup the wide shouldn't be much different. If anything, shooting on a bright beach, might have you close down a bit.
 
Hey, Thanks

Hey, Thanks

Thanks for taking the time to answering.

Dewy-dB:
Yes, you're right, i failed to mention lighting...cos we don't have any! It will be shot with available light, that's what i meant. AT most we may have some white cardboard or such to help with bounced light.

How would you shade the subject without making it obvious?

Prodigy:
Would you mind expanding on "negative fill"? What's that? How's it done?

Regarding getting the look in post, that's exactly what i'm used to. I'm still not confident enough to commit so early to a particular kind of image...even more having in mind that I won't have any decent monitoring, just the LCD of the cam.

How would you "fake" an over exposed look in post? My first idea would be to use Levels or Curves and just crank the whites and blacks to taste.

Any other tips or warnings i should be aware before going out and filming on a beach? How long after dawn do you think I could safely film? I mean, without destroying peoples' skin and such in video. I guess something like two hours afterwards...not much more, right?
 
I don't understand the stress here ?

Expose your shots properly and adjust for highlights.

Your skin tones are your main concern in not blowing them out. Everything else will look grand.

Use bounce to fill if the sky becomes an issue; but if shooting in the magic sunrise, that should not be a problem.
 
Hehehe, the stress is that I've never done something like this before, and it's a pretty important gig for me, so I want to make sure everything's as controlled as possible.

On the other hand, I'm a bit worried because my previous tests filming on a beach haven't really been very cool, I guess it had something to do with filming on a cloudy, windy day. The general feeling of the video, pretty much dull.

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NO CC was done, this was footage filmed 25P, CINE, straight out of the camera.

:shocked:
 
Haha, hello again.

So "negative fill" isn't some act that bends the laws of physics (what is sure sounds like) but instead a way to control bounced light.

When shooting in sand, snow, or an overcast day, reflected light bouncing up from the ground is a usually a big factor. So instead of bouncing more light (reflector) onto an actors face and raising his exposure reading, you could use a black board or dubatine (sp?) to cause lower exposure readings by blocking the already reflected light.

More Here: http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=27309&hl=negative+fill


As for your footage, I see what you mean. The effects of an overcast day is low color saturation, low contrast. I hope this doesn't happen to you again, when it's time to shoot again. I would try and fix this by overexposing a stop, crushing my blacks (trying to increase some contrast) and turning my color saturation (chroma level) up to get some additional color info. Do this in camera but be careful because you can always do a little more in post, so there is no need to tear the image apart totally in camera.

And again, you can film however much you want after dawn, but truth is, after that 30 min or so of sunrise, the sun's only going to get more bright and higher in the sky. Your color temperatures will differ, and so will how the light falls on your subjects. It's a tough beast to wrangle. Can you shoot on multiple mornings with the ambient light/sunrise?
 
Thanks my man, you've been reaaaally helpful! :cheesy:

Two questions.

1) You say that overcast days bring low contrast and color saturation. I remember reading in photography books that overcast days are in fact very good because you avoid the sun "burning" everything, so you end up with more colorful images, due to the softer, gentler light. What do you think?

2) I need to shoot some scenes that will definitely be at dawn, but the majority of the clip doesn't need to. Do I risk too much If I just keep on filming after dawn for the scenes that don't need to be with golden lighting? It seems our schedule will be reeeeally tight, so If I could just kind of film everything beach related one single day, it would be really cool. It's just that I don't know how far can I go before risking "bad" images due to harsh sunlight....
 
tomperson said:
1) You say that overcast days bring low contrast and color saturation. I remember reading in photography books that overcast days are in fact very good because you avoid the sun "burning" everything, so you end up with more colorful images, due to the softer, gentler light. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is pretty much true. So basically, you kinda caught me hurriedly and poorly explaining the effects of overcast light. :embarasse It is commonly known that overcast days are of higher color temperatures. This results in a cold blueish cast which is also a common misinterpretation of low color saturation. Without thinking I repeated this common mistake. Oops.

So after putting in a little more thought before I typed away, here is the rest of

Harsh direct sunlight can reduce saturation (but not necessarily all sunlight). Therefore in overcast conditions color saturation can be more vivid, but it requires some work. Usually I have to open up a stop or two, re-white balance and, if necessary, kick up my video camera's chroma level. Using a polarizing filter can also reduce the glare from reflections that cause loss in saturation. Just remember the sky might be out of control overexposed, so either a grad ND filter or avoiding it might be necessary. That is the best way to pull color from a gloomy and overcast day.

2) I need to shoot some scenes that will definitely be at dawn, but the majority of the clip doesn't need to. Do I risk too much If I just keep on filming after dawn for the scenes that don't need to be with golden lighting? It seems our schedule will be reeeeally tight, so If I could just kind of film everything beach related one single day, it would be really cool. It's just that I don't know how far can I go before risking "bad" images due to harsh sunlight....
Click to expand...
Ah ok. So basically you are going to film the "dawn beach" scene, and when you complete shooting what you need (hopefully right before dawn ends) you want to shoot at the beach for coverage? Sounds like it will give your editor a little bit of play, and I don't see how extra footage can hurt you. You can always leave it on the cutting room floor.

Basically you are worried about 'bad' images due to harsh sunlight. Sunlight right after dawn and thereafter is often very good lighting as well. The sun is still rising and has strong directional side light. Just check your exposure and change as needed.

Where the 'bad' looking light is would be considered by many to be around high noon, or whenever the sun is directly above because it is even, flat and harsh light coming from an arguably unflattering direction.
 
Thanks again for your generous reply, you're the MAN!

It was my fault not telling that I need to film both golden hour and straight normal daylight. It's just that the whole concept has been changing quite a lot recently.

We're making a music video. The original idea was to shoot everything at dawn, but it's just impractical for such a low budget production (budget: $0) to go several days to the beach to film (with a time window of barely an hour and a half there's only so much you can do). So we kind of relaxed a bit on the constraints, and decided that most of the video will be with "normal" daylight, and just the end of it will be at dawn (in fact, we pretend to make it look like dusk).

So, our plan now is:

Shoot at dawn the scenes that pretend to be dusk.
Shoot all the other scenes up to 3/4 hours after dawn.
Shoot 2 days.

I've decided to shoot dawn for dusk mainly for three reasons:
1) Generally dusk tends to be windy, and that could ruin the artists' look.
2) We'll probably have an easier time at dawn (no people in the beach).
3) Generally dusk is hotter (we're in summer down here in South America), which can ruin the makeup and make the artists look sweaty.

But i'm still pondering if I just should try to shoot both at dawn AND at dusk, so we can do all the shooting in one day instead of having to go back to the location. Just avoid the dreaded midday and early afternoon.

I guess I'll have to decide on location what to do. I haven't done anything like this before, so I don't know how much it'll take to do each scen or how tired the artists will be. I also plan on getting plenty of coverage for more options in the editing.

What do you think about my plan?
 
It sounds good, but remember that the sun is setting and rising in different places, so shooting dawn and dusk to match each other, might pose a small problem. You can do it though, just have to keep that in mind when planning shots.

Other then that you sound pretty set.
 
Another Q: I'm thinking that for the dusk/dawn scenes we may need some extra light, in order to properly expose the subject for some detail. We will not have electricity at location, so, I'm seriously considering investing in some 200000 candle flashlight I saw at the supermarket, and then just bouncing its light into something to soften the light a bit. I guess that if done at the right distance it may add just a bit more of detail...What do you think?

I know its far from the best possible setup, but it's portable, and in my budget.
 
That could if you really need it, but I would suggest three things:

1) It won't work to well if you are very far away from the subject. Bounced light has a quick fall off. On the 'bright side' (no pun intended) this extra light isn't as important on wide shots, as it is on close ups and mediums.

2) Using diffusion paper over the light and aiming the light toward your subject will probably yield better results vs bouncing it off of foam core.

3) I've seen 1 million candle power, and 3 million candle power flash lights that didn't cost too much. I think 1 million candle power spot lights can be found at home depot, lowes and other hardware stores. I've seen a 3 million flash light at best buy once. Look into those.
 
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