No Country for Old Men
- Thread starter Eastside Parkway
- Start date
Michael Anthony Horrigan
More Cowbell Pictures
In the book I believe he watches Ed from the parking lot. In the screenplay he's there, inside the room. There's nothing imagined about his presence in both mediums. He's there.
Cheers,
Mike
Michael Anthony Horrigan
More Cowbell Pictures
Just an FYI, in the book Chigurh finds the money in the motel and returns it after taking his "cut".
Just found that out...
Mike
Just found that out...
Mike
DeSica
Well-known member
Returns it to who?
...maybe the accountant he didn't kill? (or did he kill that guy?)
There was a nice little article in December's GQ about Tommy Lee Jones and the film...pick it up if you have a chance.
Psynema
Well-known member
Just saw this tonight - might sound odd to say, but really don't get out much and didn't even know it was a Coen film until the end LOL - (I had given up on them for the aforementioned reasons LOL)
Hotel Room Scene - first I'm thinking it's TLJ's "imagination" that he's in the room, and he's debating whether or not to risk his fate going in, but on the other hand, IIRC, he doesn't really know Chigurh to know his face, so perhaps it was meant to be Anton really in the room.
On the reverse argument, Anton knows the money isn't there and has no reason to go back...logistically speaking, he would've been gone before the cops arrived if this was intended as a flashback to right after the murders as he did have a silencer and did immediately follow Moss to the next hotel.
So, logistically, doesn't quite make concrete "sense" in anyway, but I'm just going to guess it was TLJs imagination or a metaphorical "Anton/Fate" is watching you.
IMO Anton seems to be an nihilist in a sense - that he really doesn't care about goods/money/life, but rather, has sort of taken the role of "fate" in the sense that he stalks people particularly for making a free will choice or going for it all ie "the american dream" in a greedy sense - Moss is the main source of instant free will decision making, so he's the main target, as are the people against him - Woody, Root etc. TLJ really seems to be at odds, deciding to quit the force and realizing his futility, so he gets a pass.
Moss's wife statement comes as a shock to Anton as she doesn't "buy in" to his theory of humanity as "opportunists", however, her very defiance is also a form of free will, so she gets whacked.
Anton reminds me EXACTLY of John Goodman in Barton Fink, going after the stereotypical "Caught up in the public perception of what life should be" and the nihilist against it showing these people for who they really are. Fink also had a semi "non traditional (sensical)" ending to it, so did the hotel room scene.
Both films have the revenge against people with the "Typical american" idea of success.
Fink was full of arrogant hollywood types trying to fullfill the dream, leaving a quaint but successful playwright career vs. the lowclass John Goodman, his heroic author turns out to be a fraud, and pretty much the film unveils to him the bullshit of American Success and spits in his face the quaint family life he left behind, specifically characterized by his parents head in a box.
Likewise, No Country for Old men is dealing with similar issues - Not to sound racists, but I think they're obviously playing on the Mexican trying to live the American riches dream, especially with the comment "I've never seen a Mexican in a suit" and they're forced into the drug trade and ALL END UP DEAD pursuing riches, Moss's poverty is blatantly displayed, and they make a point to say his wife works at Walmart and Moss arrogantly states "You're retired now honey". To contrast this TLJ obviously has not forgotten his quaint upbringing and wife/family for his legacy - he's realized it's a lost war and can't conquer his enemy as a cop anymore, so he lives - the coin in the motel room was chance, but he made his decision by free will by quitting and settling with his wife.
Then again, Chigurh got away and may be after him next, perhaps what TLJs dream implied LOL. - So who knows.
Hotel Room Scene - first I'm thinking it's TLJ's "imagination" that he's in the room, and he's debating whether or not to risk his fate going in, but on the other hand, IIRC, he doesn't really know Chigurh to know his face, so perhaps it was meant to be Anton really in the room.
On the reverse argument, Anton knows the money isn't there and has no reason to go back...logistically speaking, he would've been gone before the cops arrived if this was intended as a flashback to right after the murders as he did have a silencer and did immediately follow Moss to the next hotel.
So, logistically, doesn't quite make concrete "sense" in anyway, but I'm just going to guess it was TLJs imagination or a metaphorical "Anton/Fate" is watching you.
IMO Anton seems to be an nihilist in a sense - that he really doesn't care about goods/money/life, but rather, has sort of taken the role of "fate" in the sense that he stalks people particularly for making a free will choice or going for it all ie "the american dream" in a greedy sense - Moss is the main source of instant free will decision making, so he's the main target, as are the people against him - Woody, Root etc. TLJ really seems to be at odds, deciding to quit the force and realizing his futility, so he gets a pass.
Moss's wife statement comes as a shock to Anton as she doesn't "buy in" to his theory of humanity as "opportunists", however, her very defiance is also a form of free will, so she gets whacked.
Anton reminds me EXACTLY of John Goodman in Barton Fink, going after the stereotypical "Caught up in the public perception of what life should be" and the nihilist against it showing these people for who they really are. Fink also had a semi "non traditional (sensical)" ending to it, so did the hotel room scene.
Both films have the revenge against people with the "Typical american" idea of success.
Fink was full of arrogant hollywood types trying to fullfill the dream, leaving a quaint but successful playwright career vs. the lowclass John Goodman, his heroic author turns out to be a fraud, and pretty much the film unveils to him the bullshit of American Success and spits in his face the quaint family life he left behind, specifically characterized by his parents head in a box.
Likewise, No Country for Old men is dealing with similar issues - Not to sound racists, but I think they're obviously playing on the Mexican trying to live the American riches dream, especially with the comment "I've never seen a Mexican in a suit" and they're forced into the drug trade and ALL END UP DEAD pursuing riches, Moss's poverty is blatantly displayed, and they make a point to say his wife works at Walmart and Moss arrogantly states "You're retired now honey". To contrast this TLJ obviously has not forgotten his quaint upbringing and wife/family for his legacy - he's realized it's a lost war and can't conquer his enemy as a cop anymore, so he lives - the coin in the motel room was chance, but he made his decision by free will by quitting and settling with his wife.
Then again, Chigurh got away and may be after him next, perhaps what TLJs dream implied LOL. - So who knows.
aravance
Well-known member
This is an extremely thorough blog post about the ending of the movie.
I found it really insightful and agree with a lot of what he analyzes.
It's a little lengthy, but if you have some time it's a great read.
http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2007/12/ending-for-no-country.html
I found it really insightful and agree with a lot of what he analyzes.
It's a little lengthy, but if you have some time it's a great read.
http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2007/12/ending-for-no-country.html
DeSica
Well-known member
Interesting blog....
So Chigurh was in the next motel room? Cool...that explains the different lighting I noticed coming through the window (which I thought was just due to the angle of the shot).
I can see how the Coens could be seen as just putting it up on the screen for it's own sake and letting the audience make of it what they will, but there is still the matter of subtext carried over from the source material. Not having read the book, I find meaning in certain elements of the film, whether they were meant to be found there or not, either by the brothers, or the author himself.
One thing came to mind when reading that entry...
Carla Jean refuses to play Chigurh's game. She sees it as all him, and nothing to do with chance or luck, or whatever he wants to call it. His acts are deliberate, and she sees the flipping a coin for her life as farce. He almost mocks fate by ascribing things to it that are really his own doing.
Minutes after this supposed random act, a true one happens when he gets hit by the other car...like a jab from fate, showing him who's boss.
It just hit me that she could have lived (didn't she get the chance to call a coin toss over whether he would kill her or not?). Chigurh promised Moss that he would kill her, but it is likely she would have lived if she won the toss, like the old guy in the gas station. She actually chose to die by not taking the toss, or at least she made Chigurh choose to kill her (and therefore keep his promise, which she knew nothing about until Chigurh told her).
Now that I think about it, he was actually giving her a chance...and he came off like a jerk for it (though telling her about Moss having the chance to save her was low, this was still the closest thing to an act of kindness or mercy as we had ever seen from this guy).
Or am I remebering the scene wrong?
So Chigurh was in the next motel room? Cool...that explains the different lighting I noticed coming through the window (which I thought was just due to the angle of the shot).
I can see how the Coens could be seen as just putting it up on the screen for it's own sake and letting the audience make of it what they will, but there is still the matter of subtext carried over from the source material. Not having read the book, I find meaning in certain elements of the film, whether they were meant to be found there or not, either by the brothers, or the author himself.
One thing came to mind when reading that entry...
Carla Jean refuses to play Chigurh's game. She sees it as all him, and nothing to do with chance or luck, or whatever he wants to call it. His acts are deliberate, and she sees the flipping a coin for her life as farce. He almost mocks fate by ascribing things to it that are really his own doing.
Minutes after this supposed random act, a true one happens when he gets hit by the other car...like a jab from fate, showing him who's boss.
It just hit me that she could have lived (didn't she get the chance to call a coin toss over whether he would kill her or not?). Chigurh promised Moss that he would kill her, but it is likely she would have lived if she won the toss, like the old guy in the gas station. She actually chose to die by not taking the toss, or at least she made Chigurh choose to kill her (and therefore keep his promise, which she knew nothing about until Chigurh told her).
Now that I think about it, he was actually giving her a chance...and he came off like a jerk for it (though telling her about Moss having the chance to save her was low, this was still the closest thing to an act of kindness or mercy as we had ever seen from this guy).
Or am I remebering the scene wrong?
Kirk Gillock
Rebel with a cause
Brilliant film.
The scene near the beginning, when Llewelyn goes back to give the man some water and leaves his truck parked on the hill. He turns around to see his truck silhouetted (alone) on the hillside and, after a short while, turns around again to see another truck parked beside it. Absolutely perfect. From that point on the movie never slowed down.
The scene near the beginning, when Llewelyn goes back to give the man some water and leaves his truck parked on the hill. He turns around to see his truck silhouetted (alone) on the hillside and, after a short while, turns around again to see another truck parked beside it. Absolutely perfect. From that point on the movie never slowed down.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Worst movie ever.
I want my money and the time I wasted back.
I want my money and the time I wasted back.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
why's that?
BryantStanton
Well-known member
I understand the film isn't everyone, but that's an exaggeration if I ever heard one. If you can't appreciate the story, as a filmmaker you should be able to appreciate the amount of technical perfection involved in the film... the sound, the photography, etc.
Would you seriously rank this below something like Mario Brothers? There are hundreds of films that are far worse, both in story and production value.
Your comment seems hasty at best.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Okay, worst movie I have seen in the last 2 years....
I didn't go to this movie as a film maker, I just wanted to go enjoy a film, and not over analyze everything about it.
Maybe I went out of my way to bash it, but almost everyone in the audience, including my wife, said "WTF" out loud after the last scene.
The production value was good, the sound was good, even the editing was good.
But in my mind the "esoteric-ness" of the movie was lost on most of the audience I viewed it with.
I didn't go to this movie as a film maker, I just wanted to go enjoy a film, and not over analyze everything about it.
Maybe I went out of my way to bash it, but almost everyone in the audience, including my wife, said "WTF" out loud after the last scene.
The production value was good, the sound was good, even the editing was good.
But in my mind the "esoteric-ness" of the movie was lost on most of the audience I viewed it with.
karapetkov
Well-known member
I'm perplexed...
The first part was built beautifully, but then...
I guess they dug deeper than I was willing to go, or just dug at the wrong place, cause when I went there and looked into that hole, i didn't see anything I was willing or expecting to see.
Or maybe it's just me...
The actors rocked though. TLJ is the man.
And sometimes the lack of soundtrack can be a good thing. :violin:
The first part was built beautifully, but then...
I guess they dug deeper than I was willing to go, or just dug at the wrong place, cause when I went there and looked into that hole, i didn't see anything I was willing or expecting to see.
Or maybe it's just me...
The actors rocked though. TLJ is the man.
And sometimes the lack of soundtrack can be a good thing. :violin:
DeSica
Well-known member
Maybe the film should have a disclaimer...
-Warning: This film stays true to source material. People who like ABC films where everything goes acoording to pattern may be disappointed. Concepts will not be dumbed down nor will the viewer's hand be held (except maybe by their date) during the course of the movie. Film may include thought provoking, vague or open ended situations. Viewer discretion is advised-
or
You could have one of the amusement park cut outs with a stack of IQ tests and have people fill them out. The ticket taker could then check results against the cut out and allow people based on whatever standards are set for the particular movie...
...the smiling cartoon cut out would have a blurb that read "You must be at least this intelligent to see this movie..."
-Warning: This film stays true to source material. People who like ABC films where everything goes acoording to pattern may be disappointed. Concepts will not be dumbed down nor will the viewer's hand be held (except maybe by their date) during the course of the movie. Film may include thought provoking, vague or open ended situations. Viewer discretion is advised-
or
You could have one of the amusement park cut outs with a stack of IQ tests and have people fill them out. The ticket taker could then check results against the cut out and allow people based on whatever standards are set for the particular movie...
...the smiling cartoon cut out would have a blurb that read "You must be at least this intelligent to see this movie..."
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Ah I see, so those of us who disagree with the majority are just to simple to understand the awesome grandeur of this epic work.
:violin:
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
DeSica could have worded it better. it's not about a viewer's level of intelligence. The Coen Bros crafted a film for a specific audience that has developed a certain sensitivity or appreciation that would allow them to remain engaged by unconventional choices. still, whether or not NCFOM was successful in rewarding that audience is open for debate, and has been since its release.
karapetkov
Well-known member
Man, I'm supposed to be smart, ROTF.:2vrolijk_08:
Maybe it's just that I haven't read the novel.
The same thing happened to me with all the LOTR films [not trying to make any parallel here].
I hadn't read Tolkien's book and I felt that many moments which were supposed to make me say WOW!, just made me say WTF. And unfortunately there was a big WTF in the end too. "Hobbits, bobbits"
A lot of people who have read the book, like the movie, but that's no excuse for it when it lacks something in the eyes of those who haven't read the book. The movie should be self-sufficient, otherwise the script has weaknesses.
Juz my 2c.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Couldn't agree more.
I can understand how having read the source material might give an audience an added level of enjoyment of a movie -
but it should never be a requirement.