Cool Lights European Group Buy

[Spartacus]

We have used Air Cargo on DHL before. Never went to an airline directly. The problem I saw with it was the necessity of the customer(s) going to the airport to pick up the fixtures because one reason its cheaper is there is no direct to door express service with this.

But isn´t that where your escrow agent steps in?
Shouldn´t make much difference if he deals with cargo from a plane or a ship...
And if DHL does the Air Cargo, can´t they just do the door delivery afterwards, too?
Or is this costing to much?
I get 90% of my deliverys from DHL...

 

[Spartacus]

Was thinking about having a Group Buy forum on my website support forum. Having one thread per country or region depending upon how the mechanics of all this shake out. For instance, I think if we try this in Europe, Australia should be next because there's lots of interested people there as well. Perhaps notify people about the group buy threads here and let them sign up over on Cool Lights Support forum would be the best way I can think of right now.

But how does this work in detail?
I go to the forum, say i want this and that fixture and then
a) wait till enough orders are brought together and if so get an information to pay now so the order can precide...
b) pay imediately and wait till the minimum contingent is reached
c)???

 

[Cool Lights]

But isn´t that where your escrow agent steps in?
Shouldn´t make much difference if he deals with cargo from a plane or a ship...
And if DHL does the Air Cargo, can´t they just do the door delivery afterwards, too?
Or is this costing to much?
I get 90% of my deliverys from DHL...

Yes an escrow agent would take care of that but you have to understand that air cargo is still quite a bit more expensive than sea shipping and therefore now you have an escrow agent cost + more expensive shipping. Its why I really remain most hopeful that we can deal with a large quantity and sea shipping to keep all costs low.

 

[Cool Lights]

But how does this work in detail?
I go to the forum, say i want this and that fixture and then
a) wait till enough orders are brought together and if so get an information to pay now so the order can precide...
b) pay imediately and wait till the minimum contingent is reached
c)???

What I thought and perhaps there is a better way, was that we would wait until a certain number of people posted their wishes and then we go down the list collecting payments so really payments wouldn't be taken until we get the serious amount of customers.

 

[muroshi]

Actually you do since all my customers in England and elsewhere have reported they have paid customs even though they were very reasonable in all cases. I understand that customs tax is paid by the importer and thus, if I was the importer through an escrow agent, I would pay the customs tax and its just a sunk cost that I bear (as do all such importer/dealers) within the cost of my goods. VAT is another story and usually paid by the end customer for the goods in my experience. With our point to point shipments to various parts of Europe, each customer paid customs tax and VAT since they were both the importer and end customer. I believe the way it would work in this instance is the escrow agent would collect the VAT for each of you based on your country and would be charged with paying that to your respective tax agencies in each country. But I am not totally sure about this VAT though and this requires more research.

What I meant is inside the EU. For instance if you ship from England to Germany you souldn't have to pay customs, but you have in Switzerland, because it's not a EU member state. Hardly think that there's a workaround as the delivery would meet Germanys soil. But let me know if there is any. Cheers

 

[muroshi]

Okay, check with BH. As far as I know Amazon is a bit different. They charge for their shop-system. Bargain. Check this things.

 

[logic108]

About the B&H thing - if you need a list of people to write to B&H requesting your products then we can do that if you think you can get a good deal from them. I understand that shipping to multiple customers is not always easy. With DHL try the volume discount and also reduce the actual packaged volume of your products.
I would pay in the region of 250 dollars for transport costs if ordering two lights. For one light I would pay about 140 dollars. Which I think is a lot already. If you can get your transport costs down to this level then I'm ordering right away.

 

[CarPa]

if you need a list of people to write to B&H requesting your products then we can do that if you think you can get a good deal from them

You can count on me. I'm in Spain and also I'm very interested in finding a solution

 

[muroshi]

Sure, let's spam them.

 

[Spartacus]

Guys,
Richard is directly selling his stuff in the US.
Thing is, if his stuff is sold by B&H he has to give them a big chunk ( they do sth like just acting as the "marketplace" and you will get drop shipping directly from the manufacturer, but it still will be a big piece of the pie) of his profit and he somehow has a competitor in his "home market" (even if he will sell more units...).
The whole concept of direct marketing would be lost and avoiding that cut in revenues would mean raising prices.

Now for Europe or Australia things are different, distribution could still be the best way for all, as long as prices are still lower than a) direct shipping from China and b) the market leaders fixtures.

One thing we all agree on: so far shipping to Europe diminishes the price advantages of CoolLights over older brands...

 

[muroshi]

The whole concept of direct marketing would be lost and avoiding that cut in revenues would mean raising prices.

Not necessarily. He could choose not to sell directly and devote his time instead in developing new products. The public of BH could lead to much higher sold units. Lets face it, the market of filmmakers is not nearly as big as the one of home photographers (which are the big chunk of their customers). You don't need to have a big margin if you sell enough units. BH certainly would quadruplicate sales.

It's less adventurous, but it's also a steadier environment with a monthly cash flow, which is especially important for a start-up.

 

[cckid]

if you find a solution for cheap group shiping to EU I would be interested....please send me PM....I am from EU country so no problem for me...

 

[Cool Lights]

Not necessarily. He could choose not to sell directly and devote his time instead in developing new products. The public of BH could lead to much higher sold units. Lets face it, the market of filmmakers is not nearly as big as the one of home photographers (which are the big chunk of their customers). You don't need to have a big margin if you sell enough units. BH certainly would quadruplicate sales.

It's less adventurous, but it's also a steadier environment with a monthly cash flow, which is especially important for a start-up.

Of course, we've thought a lot about this and I hear you. I always like to try to find innovative solutions if I can though and this seems to me it would be a bit like surrendering to "the system" so to speak. I really want to try to find the best way to sell these fixtures and also support them in Europe too. The B&H thing still doesn't solve the long term issue of having a support depot in Europe. How would B&H handle service issues for European customers for instance? Not that we have lots of service but in the future, as we roll out more HMI products, service will be far more important than it is with the fluorescent units.

By the way, if Switzerland taxes everything that comes into the country, how would service be handled if you had to send it to England for instance for service? Would they tax again on re-entry when its coming back from service?

 

[muroshi]

Of course, we've thought a lot about this and I hear you. I always like to try to find innovative solutions if I can though and this seems to me it would be a bit like surrendering to "the system" so to speak. I really want to try to find the best way to sell these fixtures and also support them in Europe too. The B&H thing still doesn't solve the long term issue of having a support depot in Europe. How would B&H handle service issues for European customers for instance? Not that we have lots of service but in the future, as we roll out more HMI products, service will be far more important than it is with the fluorescent units.

By the way, if Switzerland taxes everything that comes into the country, how would service be handled if you had to send it to England for instance for service? Would they tax again on re-entry when its coming back from service?

I guess you have to speak to BH how they handle that, but I'm almost sure that it will be re-taxed again. If not, everyone would declare it as service shippment. But I can't say really. It's a question of failure and risk for me, as the general importer of kinoflo for example sells 40% above BHs prices, which frankly makes BH the best seller for Kinoflo for me. So the - I don't know - 2% probability with your fixtures of issues(?) are way beyound paying up to 55% more for basically the same fixture from coollights. This changes of course if there are issues, but you said it's not rocket science, so perhaps with a good FAQ issues are solvable without sending them anywhere.

I see that HMIs could be another story. There is also the possibility of spliting the two lines. Fluros over BH and HMIs over your shop, starting first in the US, with HMI the need of dealers rises, but as HMIs from ordinary sellers tend to be very pricey it could be doable here. Probably not with the older general importers who will see their profits shrink, but with community members who will just offer that as a part-time service.

 

[sundance44ANCE44]

A Standard 20' Ocean Container Would Hold Approximately 1300 Cases At 1 Cu Foot. Would Probably Be At Least 6 Units Per Case So You'd Be Importing About 7000 Units, Do You Have That Many Potential Buyers ??
The Container Would Have To Move From The Port To A Cfs Station Or A Public Warehouse At A Est Cost Of Around $200 Usd.
Then There Will Be Unloading And Storage And Handling Fees. To Make Shipments The Whse Will Charge A Bol Prep And Tack On The Local Delivery Fee, Ups / Dhl / Fedex.
Before You Can Even Get Your Hands On The Container You'll Have To Hire A Customs Broker To Prepare The Paperwork (around $100 Usd) And Deal With A Bank To Provide A Bank Guarantee To The Shipper Before The Original Bill Of Lading Can Be Surrendered.
Sounds Like A Lot Of Trouble To Buy An On Cam Light

 

[Spartacus]

Sounds Like A Lot Of Trouble To Buy An On Cam Light

Are you sure, you´re in the right thread...?

Anyways, the first part is what concernes me most: how long does it take, until a container order is filled...?
If we first only collect "interests", how many will jump off, when the list is full and we are ready to place the order?
Let´s say 10% jump off, do we have to wait again till also this last missing 10% potential buyers are found?
And then, how long till the shippment reaches the buyers?

I don´t think this is the "worst case", rather a "very likely case".
This would make it rather difficult for eg planning a production with your order...
Again, don´t want to talk all negativ, I´m really trying to find a solution for this.

 

[Cool Lights]

A Standard 20' Ocean Container Would Hold Approximately 1300 Cases At 1 Cu Foot. Would Probably Be At Least 6 Units Per Case So You'd Be Importing About 7000 Units, Do You Have That Many Potential Buyers ??
The Container Would Have To Move From The Port To A Cfs Station Or A Public Warehouse At A Est Cost Of Around $200 Usd.
Then There Will Be Unloading And Storage And Handling Fees. To Make Shipments The Whse Will Charge A Bol Prep And Tack On The Local Delivery Fee, Ups / Dhl / Fedex.
Before You Can Even Get Your Hands On The Container You'll Have To Hire A Customs Broker To Prepare The Paperwork (around $100 Usd) And Deal With A Bank To Provide A Bank Guarantee To The Shipper Before The Original Bill Of Lading Can Be Surrendered.
Sounds Like A Lot Of Trouble To Buy An On Cam Light

Thanks for the advice. We've done this a few times though so we know the drill and we know how many flo's and fresnels can fit in a container. First of all, a 20 foot container doesn't hold anything near 7000 of our flo fixtures. We don't sell On Cam lights (yet) so I'm really not sure where you got that perception. The size of our flo fixtures means that we fit between 300 to 400 cases (1 per case) in there and various other accessories like 55w tubes and light stands.

This thread is primarily for Europeans and Australians to chime in on their thoughts about our selling direct in Europe. I'm sure you mean well but please don't confuse people if you don't understand our products.

 

[Cool Lights]

Are you sure, you´re in the right thread...?

Anyways, the first part is what concernes me most: how long does it take, until a container order is filled...?
If we first only collect "interests", how many will jump off, when the list is full and we are ready to place the order?
Let´s say 10% jump off, do we have to wait again till also this last missing 10% potential buyers are found?
And then, how long till the shippment reaches the buyers?

I don´t think this is the "worst case", rather a "very likely case".
This would make it rather difficult for eg planning a production with your order...
Again, don´t want to talk all negativ, I´m really trying to find a solution for this.

Yes, that is a concern. No question some would drop out if its easy to do so. What if we collected 10% to 20% up front? Then people have something to lose if they drop out...

 

[Cool Lights]

I guess you have to speak to BH how they handle that, but I'm almost sure that it will be re-taxed again. If not, everyone would declare it as service shippment. But I can't say really. It's a question of failure and risk for me, as the general importer of kinoflo for example sells 40% above BHs prices, which frankly makes BH the best seller for Kinoflo for me. So the - I don't know - 2% probability with your fixtures of issues(?) are way beyound paying up to 55% more for basically the same fixture from coollights. This changes of course if there are issues, but you said it's not rocket science, so perhaps with a good FAQ issues are solvable without sending them anywhere.

I see that HMIs could be another story. There is also the possibility of spliting the two lines. Fluros over BH and HMIs over your shop, starting first in the US, with HMI the need of dealers rises, but as HMIs from ordinary sellers tend to be very pricey it could be doable here. Probably not with the older general importers who will see their profits shrink, but with community members who will just offer that as a part-time service.

Fluorescent's -- no problem. Very unlikely to have issues. And if there are issues, they are really easy to fix usually with minimal debugging skills. Even considering the extreme case that Cool Lights wasn't around for some reason, you can find a standard T5HO ballast on the market that can just plug into our fixtures and you're back up and running. That's the beauty of mature technology.

This is not yet the case with HMIs unfortunately which are far from a mature technology. Everyone involved with them has done all they can to keep it all a mystery and since each manufacturer has their own solution, its practically impossible to just pick something up from another manufacturer and just plug it in to replace some part of the system. Let's just hope we're speeding along toward the day when this is no longer the case!

So, the HMIs are the primary concern at this point because they go through serious stress in their lifetime from one end to the other. I think its a given we mostly have to sell HMI's in the USA until we understand further all the issues and service and have developed some history on what it takes to maintain them. Unless of course, we find someone in Europe that's a real power electronics wiz and can support them.

 

[logic108]

I don't think the container shipment will work. I hope you can get a distributer over here in Europe but you want to sell directly right?
Anyhow I think all of this makes me more determined to build my own flo's . So the search for parts will start over this christmas period.
Sorry but on thinking about the details and how long it would take to fill a container I could still be waiting for your coolights next Christmas. A quoted shipment cost of over 500 dollars for two lights was a shock plus on top of that tax and duty brings us to about 600 dollars shipment cost from China to Europe for two lights. I don't think this transport cost will reduce any time soon so I'll just get on with building my own flos.
You know your business and so good luck to you.