Do you guys go to mpeg for DVD from Timeline or from .Mov

Jack Daniel Stanley

Jack Daniel Stanley

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Staff member
I've always output the highest quality .mov I could and dragged that into compressor to compress for DVD.

Anyone do it out of the timeline? What are the pro / cons.

My feeling is just for system demand that its quicker, less likely for a crash or something doing it from a hiQ .mov. It takes almost no time for the movie to output form FCP and then I can close that system hungry app and let compressor work quietly in the background.

Right now I'm quality checking my work on somebody else's feature that I color graded.

Its my first time doing anything this long. As this is the last pass I'm in an uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 timeline. I'm going to output the same, change the frame rate from 25 to 23.98 in cinema tools, then drag my master.mov into compressor and watch all the NYPD Blue's I taped last night unless someone thinks I should do it differently.

:beer:
 
I'm not any of those guys you want comments from (:D), but like you, I always export a full-res .mov file, then encode that in compressor. I haven't yet heard a good reason to do it any other way.

As to the Cinema Tools question, it sounds like you've got the right idea, and plenty of shots of Dennis Franz's ass to keep you occupied.
 
Not sure what to say, Jack. The only way I have ever used Compressor is from the Timeline in FCP, so I have no sense of the difference. Perhaps the next time I should try it outside of FCP.
 
stephenmick said:
I'm not any of those guys you want comments from (:D), but like you, I always export a full-res .mov file, then encode that in compressor. I haven't yet heard a good reason to do it any other way.

As to the Cinema Tools question, it sounds like you've got the right idea, and plenty of shots of Dennis Franz's ass to keep you occupied.
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Heheh, thanks for the comments. I was just goosing the usual suspects, but welcome comments from any.

Blaine said:
Not sure what to say, Jack. The only way I have ever used Compressor is from the Timeline in FCP, so I have no sense of the difference. Perhaps the next time I should try it outside of FCP.
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I figured I wasn't hearing from some peeps for that reason. Same way I wouldn't know what to say if the question was reversed.

Curious though: Does that mean you never have a high quality flattened movie. Like for unawakening I have 7 or 8 GB copies of each, and later when I want to encode for web or DVD, or someone wants an online 720p and I've only put up 480p, I just drop the master in compressor and never open FCP. Seems odd to not have a flattened version of it.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
Curious though: Does that mean you never have a high quality flattened movie. Like for unawakening I have 7 or 8 GB copies of each, and later when I want to encode for web or DVD, or someone wants an online 720p and I've only put up 480p, I just drop the master in compressor and never open FCP. Seems odd to not have a flattened version of it.
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Which .mov choice (settings) do you use when outputting you high quality flattened movie? I guess I'm asking which setting gives you the best quality master. I'm thinking of going back to HoGoth and spitting out a master of it. It's running time is 87 minutes.

EDIT: When I originally compressed it for DVD, I was forced to chop it into 3 pieces because I would get so far and the whole thing would hang up. Done in three shorter chunks, I was able to get it done and butt them up against one another in DVDSP with no adverse affects. Now, I'm wondering if I had a flattened .mov file to take into Compressor if I might have been able to make it in a single m2v file.
 
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Well I've only done short things until now. For SD I used uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2. This was back in the day before ProRes. File sizes for 6 minute movies were something like 7 gigs?

I haven't done a full quality thing like that to output my HD shorts yet so I've just been putting them out using "current settings" from the timeline. So just DVCproHD in a .mov wrapper. So no more compression than it was shot in, but not uncompressed.

For this thing I'm doing now the PAL sequence is actually 10 bit 4:2:2.

I worked in a regular PAL sequence and then made a new sequence of 10 bit 4:2:2, set the render to high quality precision YUV, and nested the original sequence in the 10 bit sequence where I am blowing up to NTSC 16X9 wiidescreen, deinterlacing, and applying G Nicer, which is a chroma uprezz filter, and applying some other global adjustments.

I'll post how many GB an uncompressed 10 bit 422 80 minute movie is later, after I flatten this damn thing and finally get this project out of my life.
 
Okay, Jack. I did a quick test. On my PowerBook G4 I ran a 2 minute clip out of FCP through Compressor. It took 11 minutes to compress to a m2v. I used DVD Best Quality 90 Minuntes - 4:3. I then exported as an uncompressed NTSC file. This file was then compressed using Compressor (FCP closed). This one also took 11 minutes to compress using all the same settings. I couldn't tell any difference between the two m2v files which were both 88 Mb in size.
 
I think the quality would be the same.

But one thing is that you can work in lesser codec and export to a higher one right? Because the added info is hidden in their right? Dunno.

I know I like getting out of Final Crash Pro for long memory intensive stuff like an 80 minute feature though.

Seems like the workflow is just a matter of preference, though the .mov version vs. FCP version was much faster for me way back around Zombie fest, but I haven't gone out of the timeline since then.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
I know I like getting out of Final Crash Pro for long memory intensive stuff like an 80 minute feature though.
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I'm going to take Hollywood Gothic (87 minutes) and do the flattened uncompressed file thing to it. After that I'm going to see if I can compress it to a single file (rather than the 3 I originally had to do).

Of course it'll be an overnight compression for me. :(
 
Y'know, I stay away from this stuff because of the headache it gives me. But now that this is being discussed, I ask...

What's the difference between outputting from the FCP timeline as a QT file and outputting a best quality mpeg from Compressor? I just started toying with Compressor and I outputted two versions of the same SD file, one QT from FCP and one Best Quality MPEG from Compressor (originating in the FCP timeline). I watched them both on my production monitor and projected on the big screen. I could not tell the difference.
 
I don't believe there is a difference, only that doing it from the timeline ties up your FCP system, while doing it in the background does not.

Am I right?

--SM
 
Well there is a difference in an Mpeg and whatever is on your timeline and whatever is on your timeline is higher quality.

DV is compressed.
DVCpro HD is compressed
MPEGS are MUCH MUCH MUCH More compressed.
Uncompressed is, well uncompressed :)
I think, ProRes 422 is supposed to be indistinguishible from uncompressed, but I am not sure.

So if you output a .mov from your timeline at current settings, that's very different then outputting an Mpeg from your timeline at current settings.

We're saying you can go a step further maybe and work in DVCpro HD or DV and then when you output a final master, do it in pro res or uncompressed. But then I think some people say you don't gain anything by going to a better codec than the source. For my current project though the image is so bad that I want all the help I can get even if it is more voodoo than actual help. So I am mastering out uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2

Stephen is right about tying up your system being the only difference theoretically in going to mpeg form either FCP or from .mov with the same setting and codec.
 
And a difference in QT and Compressor is that Compressor gives you a lot more control over the compression process.
 
Which doesn't help a whole helluva lot if I am clueless...:beer:

So, I am pretty much wasting all that output time (it takes a lot longer to output through compressor than a QT file from the timeline) for an SD project shot on miniDV?
 
These days my current workflow, especially going from DVCPROHD to SD DVD is:

Export from Timeline to Compressor, use ProRes HQ 24p 16:9 SD settings.

Then open the ProRes in Compressor and export to MPEG-2.

Why not just go directly to MPEG-2. Well it takes a really long time to downconvert and go to MPEG-2 in one step. And if it fails along the way or doesn't turn out well you have that much longer time starting over from scratch.

Also this workflow gives you a great archival ProRes HQ master, that unlike MPEG-2 can be re-cut and re-rendered with almost no quality loss. More storage needed of course but not a bad tradeoff.

-Noah
 
Blaine, I have that book for compressor 2. I started to read it, but the thing about this app is that it's not like Motion, or Soundtrack where you can do fun stuff while you experiment. I know it's important to know about compression, but dang it's tedious, boring and confusing. I just keep putting it off. I thought that I'd see a difference in the two files, so when I didn't, I used that as an excuse to not give a crrap. DON'T TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME!!!! :grin:

Sorry, long day.
 
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