No Country for Old Men

Then they are too underhanded for me. They set it up (IMHO) to absolutely make you believe he is in there. it looks like he is right behind the door. BUt then there is no payoff.

I don't see the ending as european. To me, european endings are about unresolved issues or unhappy endings. This endind was simply two circumstantially connected people who both go on with their lives. One with barely a clue the other exists, the other only haunted by a presence he never gets to confront. One is changed (TLJ), although I could argue that his choice to retire is caused by a career of confusion and being overwhelmed more than Anton himself. The other is not. I hated the ending.
 
Let me qualify that. I thought the last 20 minutes was moving, well writeen and performed. But it seemed so disconnected from the rest of the film for me.






Spoilers below









And what the hell was the point of Anton getting in that car wreck? I thought it revealed nothing about him that wasn't already obvious and it meant nothing to the plot. I mean yeah, I jumped out of my seat when it happened, but it was pointless.
 
SPOILERS:

Okay - here's my take.....





Chigurh was most definitely in the hotel room when Ed (TLJ) went into the room.
Ed knew this, drew his gun, and went in - either to make a difference or die trying - or maybe both.

Chigurh has no real reason to kill Ed - Ed is on the outside of all this mess, he is not even important enough to these events to kill. Most of the people that Chirgurh killed he did because he either 'needed' to, or because 'fate' decided that they needed to die.
Had Ed looked behind the door, it would have been the same as flipping the coin (50/50 Heads he looks behind the door, tails he doesn't) - had he revealed Chirgurh, Chirgurh would have shot him in order to save himself. Instead Ed goes to the back, sees that the window is still locked from the inside, and realizes that Chirgurh was still in the room. At that point - Chirgurh probably left the room through the open door. Ed won the 'coin toss' - he lives, and Chigurh got away.

Ed comes back into the room, realizes that he's just an old man who can't really make any difference in this. He's completely powerless, and not even enough of a force to bother killing. The people he is chasing are so far beyond him that they don't even see Ed as a threat. Like someone else eluded to...it's truly 'No Country for Old men' - and Ed is an old man.

As far as the car wreck at the end - Chigurh is the major force of the film, dictating who will live and who will die. He likes to think of himself in control - he is the one in charge of dispensing 'fate' to the rest of the world with the flip of a coin. But - even he is not immune to the random acts of life. No matter how scary he might be, the randomness and indifference of fate can still change his course... the same way it changed the course of the Elk that Moss shot in the opening... and the same way it changed Moss's course when he sumbled onto the drug deal.

Just my 2 cents.



EDITED TO ADD:
I know some of you might find this a weird comparison - but Chirgurh isn't all that different from the Lone Biker of the Apocalypse in Raising Arizona.
Only imagine if the Lone Biker had won out in the end, instead of HI.

I can see why the Coens were attracted to this novel.
The story is right up their alley.
 
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Jim Brennan said:
Let me qualify that. I thought the last 20 minutes was moving, well writeen and performed. But it seemed so disconnected from the rest of the film for me.
Spoilers below
And what the hell was the point of Anton getting in that car wreck? I thought it revealed nothing about him that wasn't already obvious and it meant nothing to the plot. I mean yeah, I jumped out of my seat when it happened, but it was pointless.
Click to expand...

I think the ending underlined TLJ's emotional angle and the idea of how time passes...

As some have pointed out here, he was always a step or two behind. There was so much going on, so many players, so much action, yet he never really was there for any of it, though he was investigating it. His slow methodical country boy take on police work wasn't up to pace with the dudes he was dealing with and the times that were coming. He only caught up to Moss when he was dead...Harrelson found him in mere hours.

The scene where he is reading the paper and talking with the deputy shows he just doesn't get what this crazy world is coming to, and the talk with the other older cop in town (El Paso) sort of acts as a mirror for him...his contemporaries are reflected back at him and he sees a bit of himself. He's failed to help Moss, failed at catching a killer, and will be of no help to Moss' wife...

Even his realisation that AC would be back at the room was a bit too late. If he had figured it out a little bit earlier, he could have waited in ambush for the killer, instead of almost having been ambushed himself. When he visits the old man in his shack, it all washes over him...his time, as it were, has faded away. He was once younger, and saw his father as an older man...but now he is older than his father ever was...some points of reference in his life have shifted, but only now does he really notice.

His dream of his father could be seen as coming to terms with his own mortality, and that no matter how fast or slow you ride, or what turns you take, the destination is always the same...and inevitable.

As for the crash...I saw it coming a mile away, and mentioned it to my buddy as AC drove down the all too quiet street.

AC was a bit of a hypocrite when it came to fate, and not as sane as he believed himself to be. Moss' wife points out the former, and Harrelson the latter. It was fitting that a guy who did have control over the things he did to people, but liked to pass it all of as fate and luck, ends up getting hit in a true random fashion. When I predicted the crash, I told my friend AC would die in it...and I was wrong.

It made sense at the time that this total psycho who kills with impunity should die in such a cheesy and random fashion after killing an innocent person who called him out on his BS...but I guess he represented evil, and evil never really dies.

It was funny how when he was in shock from the accident, he was pretty much still himself...as if to show the guy never really had much emotional range to begin with. Robotic, almost...
 
I'd say my problem with that motel scene is TLJ's performance leading up to it, because he does a pretty good job acting like he's on top of things and still has his wits about him. He doesn't return to the crime scenes with the DEA, etc, because he's already extracted the useful information. He figures out the weapon AC is using for the killings and deduces Llewelyn's role in the crime. I think he should have conveyed more impotence and weakness all along because why else would half the theater be expecting him to ask for a "...hard-target search of every residence, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area. Checkpoints go up in 15 miles. Your fugitive's name is Anton Chigurh. Go get him!"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]
 
My interpretation of the hotel scene is the same as Luis'.

On Barry's recent comments, I thought there were lots of hints in TLJ's performance that would hint at him realizing he's not fit for "the country" anymore.
I don't remember when this was, but TLJ says at one point, "I'm off radio..." and hangs his head. He realizes there's really nothing he can do, and he's letting all of the civilians down.

^When was that? Anyone?
 
Voices. Sheriff Bell glances off.


...Call your local law enforcement.
I'm not on their radio.




*This is when he gets to the motel after seeing the Mexicans driving off. I don't think is had any special meaning, it was just him telling people to call the cops, because he is from another jurisdiction.
 
spoilersish

spoilersish

Jim Brennan said:
Spoilers below









And what the hell was the point of Anton getting in that car wreck? I thought it revealed nothing about him that wasn't already obvious and it meant nothing to the plot. I mean yeah, I jumped out of my seat when it happened, but it was pointless.
Click to expand...

They way I saw this scene was a connection between AC and the story that TLJ told earlier about the cattle farmer.

The cattle farmer was so sure of his task, to kill a cow, and the bullet he put through its head ricocheted around and came out, striking the farmer in the shoulder, and making him lose all use of his arm for the rest of his life.

As TLJ put it "Even in the competition between man and steer, the outcome is not certain".

AC spends the whole movie in complete control. He is never questioned (interestingly, if you'll notice, the only people who confront or question him are women, which I found interesting). When he gets in the car crash, he is jolted. He is not in total control, because chance and accident still exist.

I found the car crash scene to be very interesting because of this. AC believed he was in constant control, and a simple twist of chance showed him that this isn't always true.

Anyway, that's how I interpreted the crash scene.
 
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As for TML's dream, I think the most important part was him waking up, meaning him coming to realize that everything is too much for him. The title of the novel/film is a perfect description of the ending of the film. TLJ has said in multiple interviews that he sees the ending as being hopeful.

Something I find great about the ending is how it makes the viewers feel. Do we end up like an 'old man' or not?
 
jpeck said:
Voices. Sheriff Bell glances off.


...Call your local law enforcement.
I'm not on their radio.




*This is when he gets to the motel after seeing the Mexicans driving off. I don't think is had any special meaning, it was just him telling people to call the cops, because he is from another jurisdiction.
Click to expand...

I found that as symbolic, even though it also had a very literal meaning.

By the way, do you have the script?
 
BryantStanton said:
I found the car crash scene to be very interesting because of this. AC believed he was in constant control, and a simple twist of chance showed him that this isn't always true.
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I don't agree with that at all. Maybe it made viewers think he wasn't always in control, but we definitely did not see any indication that it made some kind of impact on him or shook him up. It is not that he expects something like that to happen, but when it does, what can he do? It is a simple flip of a coin.
 
went to go see this film last night, I really liked this film due to the fact that you have to fill in the pieces, like we are all doing now, there is no real explanation
to the hotel scene, we can sit here and say what really happend but in all actuallity we all have our own ideas and theories, I have my own and I say it really did happen but anyway I cannot belive they filmed this movie 40 minutes away from my house and I was out of the country at the time!! talk about bad timing!

great film...hope it starts a trend
 
jpeck said:
I don't agree with that at all. Maybe it made viewers think he wasn't always in control, but we definitely did not see any indication that it made some kind of impact on him or shook him up. It is not that he expects something like that to happen, but when it does, what can he do? It is a simple flip of a coin.
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I stand by my interpretation, but I can completely see what you mean.

Curious, right before the car crash, did you happen to notice how he reacted to Moss' wife refusal to call the coin? He seemed fairly taken aback that she refused to play along with his game. Of course he killed her anyway, but for a brief moment I did see some sort of shock in his eyes that he wasn't completely in power over this person.
 
I don't remember seeing any frustration on his face, but the tone of his voice was different than normal once she confronted him about it being in his hands. I would agree her not choosing to play the 'coin toss' rattled him a bit. I wish I could watch the ending right now. :furious3:


Speaking of the wife, Kelly Macdonald was perfectly cast in that role. Her and Brolin worked well together, especially the scene near the beginning with the banter between them.
 
Y'know I get all this symbolism and I appreciate the layers of meaning. But I am still put off by the fact that for an hour and a half I think I am watching a really good movie about one guy...then bam, suddenly it's not about him at all. I'm a chracter guy more than a plot guy, and I was totally invested in Llewelyn. I'm not bothered by what happened to him, but rather how what happened to him fits in the context of the piece. Turns out it's just one more straw on Ed's camel's back. And really since Ed knows nothing about the exact circumstances of what was happening to Llewelyn, what happens to him could have been represented by anything. Could have been a kid who got raped, or an old lady knocked over for her SSI check. I just wish that if the film was going to be about Ed and his struggle with his chosen career, they wold have focused on that instead of making a crime thriller for 90 minutes, then changing gears. I felt cheated, because it was so damned good.
 
Jim Brennan said:
Y'know I get all this symbolism and I appreciate the layers of meaning. But I am still put off by the fact that for an hour and a half I think I am watching a really good movie about one guy...then bam, suddenly it's not about him at all. I'm a chracter guy more than a plot guy, and I was totally invested in Llewelyn. I'm not bothered by what happened to him, but rather how what happened to him fits in the context of the piece. Turns out it's just one more straw on Ed's camel's back. And really since Ed knows nothing about the exact circumstances of what was happening to Llewelyn, what happens to him could have been represented by anything. Could have been a kid who got raped, or an old lady knocked over for her SSI check. I just wish that if the film was going to be about Ed and his struggle with his chosen career, they wold have focused on that instead of making a crime thriller for 90 minutes, then changing gears. I felt cheated, because it was so damned good.
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What if it was "about" 2 different things?
 
Jim Brennan said:
Y'know I get all this symbolism and I appreciate the layers of meaning. But I am still put off by the fact that for an hour and a half I think I am watching a really good movie about one guy...then bam, suddenly it's not about him at all. I'm a chracter guy more than a plot guy, and I was totally invested in Llewelyn. I'm not bothered by what happened to him, but rather how what happened to him fits in the context of the piece. Turns out it's just one more straw on Ed's camel's back.
Click to expand...

How does that take away from Llewelyn's story at all?
Are you no longer invested in him - or is it that you simply weren't invested in Ed's character so that you were bored once Llewelyn was out of the picture? (no pun intended)
 
I really liked the film, but I understand people feeling shortchanged by the switch. I thought Llewelyn was way more interesting of a character than Ed and I never felt like Ed's character got developed to the point where the ending was both appropriate and satisfying. The ending felt too abrupt.
 
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