Help on treatment for a music video

[tomperson]

Ok, here's the deal:

After filming a short doc about the "making of" of a band's upcoming album, they invited me to film a music video for them. They just provided a few directions, and basically said "Let's just go out to a few nice locations, we improvise and you do what you do, we know you'll make us look wonderful"...Which is nice, they trust me, on the other hand there are too many open issues. All i know is that:

- They want the video to look timeless
- They don't want the video to be a visual "rendition" of the lyrics, so It can be quite abstract
- They want the video to look like postals, beautiful locations and photography
- They want the video to look a bit washed out, like those old 8mm home films
- They want the video to be simple, honest
- They want the video to look beautiful, but no "smart" editing or tricks
- They want the video to look a bit ethereal
- They want the performances to look quite spontaneous
- They suggest filming on a beach, maybe a fairground and/or some abandoned buildings
- Budget is as close to 0 as it gets, and there's no way of changing that

About the band:

The vocalist has quite an interesting personality, being a musician, writer and installation artist, so the guy knows quite well where he's going. He is very well known locally for his histrionic live performances, wearing crazy costumes, and last but not least for being overtly gay.

The guitarrist is kind of like the opposite, very stable and calm, discreet, heterosexual, and he's the one that works on the musical arrangements, so they complement very well. They've been friends for a long time, so there's a lot of complicity between them. They manage to make up funny situations all the time.

About the song:

The song is a slow, introspective, a bit melancholic ballad, about a person who loves another one but who would like to change him/her. So it goes something like "I love you...the way I want you". The original song is by a Brazilian pop band, very "teen pop". I feel this cover is much more appropiate given the mood of the lyrics.

Help needed:

So, with such a broad range of possibilities, I feel a bit overwhelmed. I've never done a music clip before, I'm much more accustomed to documentary-style filming, so this is quite a challenge. For one i'm finding trouble regarding:

1) How to structure the video. How to structure the acts. There's no script, and the ideas are losely connected.
2) How to convey the fact that the band members are different, individual personalities, equally important. I thought about filming them separately in different locations, and then in the last act make them join together.
3) what to show. What not to show. How to keep the audience interested.
4) How to structure the way of visualizing the video. I have watched lots of videos in YouTube, I have a list of adjectives that should inform about what it should convey, and some possible locations. But i still cannot seem to sit down, and do a storyboard. It's like I don't know where to start, and as there's no "story", anything goes, so I cannot seem to focalize.

Any help/ideas/suggestions will be most appreciated!

 

[Allen Green]

Tom,
Welcome to the world of being creative. There are volumes written on writing scripts, structuring acts etc. One good place to start is: studentfilmmakers.com they have a great library of books, videos and resources you can learn from. Then the hair pulling begins. The only way to get better is by doing. Try things you have seen and if they don't work try something else. The best thing about music videos is- there are no rules. You may not think the first one is not that great but build on that experience and go on to the next one. I know this doesn't answer your question point for point but not enough space here for that.
Good luck

 

[jdmoviemaker]

the look you want

the look you want

for your picture look I would suggest magic bullet or vitascene for the best look for what they want it :thumbsup:

 

[clang]

the first thing that springs to mind is doing it as a fake black and white (or sepia tint) film. The band walk around some visually interseting locations, the singer singing, the guitarist playing, maybe both dressed in old-style clothes (which could add some gentle humour if other people are also visible, dressed in 21st centrury clothes). Your idea (2) could work, if you can give the impression they are at 2 different locations (which might be awkward if they're 'performing' the song onscreen), then at the end show them 'meeting'. Or how about they're both independently shown performing the song for their respective partners (not necessarily their real partners), ending with the band coincidentally passing each other as they pursue their partners (neither of whom is impressed at such conditional love, although without seeing the song lyrics I don't know if in fact that fits the song theme)

As for a 'structure', I think you need to scout visually interesting locations in your area - something really run down or something old-fashioned would probably fit, and one location may be varied enough for the whole song. For visual interest, you do want some cool backgrounds for the band. Hopefully the locations will suggest some very simple structure (as opposed to a random collection of locations) - if it looks like the band are actually going somewhere, that's more interesting than aimless wandering.

and yeah, definitely look at magic bullet, there are several looks there that could be used for 'ethereal'.

 

[DArcyFD]

you'll have to give some more specific information.



ok, since an appropriate emoticon doesn't exist, i shall announce the above statement was sarcastic.

it sounds like the band have already done the treatment for you! those are some incredibly specific guidelines.

just skimming over your notes, the obvious thing seems to incorporate what you're used to
documentary style
with what the band are asking for
"simple, honest, no "smart" editing or tricks, They want the performances to look quite spontaneous"

just find some nice locations, make sure you've got good shots (light, composition etc.) and create a situation in which band members can just "be" (gosh i sound like a wanker). don't let them know when the camera is rolling. capture them as they are. get those moments that would be impossible with hollywood studios and their union crews (to paraphrase herzog in grizzly man).

find the narrative thread in the editing. this doesn't necessarily mean finding a story. you should be good at this with a documentary background.

EDIT: oh and just cause the band say they want something doesn't mean they should get it. a beach or a fairground could look very very cheesy. be a good director and make executive decisions. don't tell them a particular idea sucks, just tell them what you're gonna do different and why. cos at the end of the day you'll get the blame if it looks like cheeeeez, not the bass player.

EDIT 2: oh i should also point out the importance of the song. things like colour palette, the structure of the video etc. should be determined by the song. particular types of shot, colour schemes, editing styles will 'click' with a song, others won't. without knowing the song, i and no one else on this forum can give you any useful guidance in these areas.
listen to the song. listen to it over and over again. close your eyes. take notes. what colours does it make you think of? what kinds of movement does it make you think of? fast, slow, up, down, static, floating?

 

[tomperson]

There are volumes written on writing scripts, structuring acts etc. One good place to start is: studentfilmmakers.com they have a great library of books, videos and resources you can learn from.

I checked out studentfilmmakers.com. Seems like a nice site! I'll post this very same question there to see where it takes me.

I'm quite amazed to see that there are almost no books or sites specifically dedicated to making music videos. In amazon I found just 3 or 4 (!) suitable books, and most of the stuff I found online after hours of googling are short articles, a blog post here and there...and that's about it. I know there are volumes written about the general topics of filmmaking (writing scripts, structuring acts, directing, etc) but making music videos also presents quite
specific challenges, and it could be well said that this craft is at least 25 years old...

(I ordered "Making Music Videos: Everything you need to know from the best in the business" from amazon. Afterwards I'll let you know if it's any good)

The only way to get better is by doing. Try things you have seen and if they don't work try something else. The best thing about music videos is- there are no rules. You may not think the first one is not that great but build on that experience and go on to the next one.

I could not agree more to the fact that the only way to get better is by doing. Nevertheless, I think that we beginners can feel a bit more confident if preparing properly.

I think I should relax a bit more and not take myself too seriously.

for your picture look I would suggest magic bullet or vitascene for the best look for what they want it

Yeah, I've used magic bullet before, it can create some amazing looks. I also checked vitascene, looks interesting. Have you used it? Would you recommend it?

(2) could work, if you can give the impression they are at 2 different locations (which might be awkward if they're 'performing' the song onscreen), then at the end show them 'meeting'.

Do you think it would be awkward if in one scene you see the singer in the beach, in the next the guitarrist playing his acoustic guitar in front of a wall of an abandoned building and such?

Hopefully the locations will suggest some very simple structure (as opposed to a random collection of locations) - if it looks like the band are actually going somewhere, that's more interesting than aimless wandering.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out how to do. Avoiding a random collection of "nice" shots that have no connection or flow (what I call structure).

it sounds like the band have already done the treatment for you! those are some incredibly specific guidelines.

YEAH! The band in fact has given some really good starting points. The hair pulling is more or less related to making a structure out of the interesting but vague concepts.

just skimming over your notes, the obvious thing seems to incorporate what you're used to documentary style with what the band are asking for "simple, honest, no "smart" editing or tricks, They want the performances to look quite spontaneous"

I totally agree with you, I'll use to my advantage my documentary experience, and let them do what they do (they are good at performing!)

The thing is, I'm more or less acustomed to working scriptless, just with a few key ideas, letting the tape roll, and then making it happen on the edit. I'm used to going *where* the action happens and then filming as it *develops*. I'm not sure if i could do that with a music video...I mean, we'll have a list of locations and some key shots, the song has a structure, how to make a coherent whole out of it?

just find some nice locations, make sure you've got good shots (light, composition etc.) and create a situation in which band members can just "be"

I have a few nice locations spotted, and I'll scout for more in a few days. My biggest question nowis deciding whether we should do the whole clip in a beach setting, or if we should incorporate the urban settings (an abandoned building, the closed fairground, etc), and how to mix between both locations
during editing. The band likes the idea of showing interesting places, but they don't want a specific look. They don't want to look urban or hip or whatever. So, the locations have to be somewhat neutral.

find the narrative thread in the editing. this doesn't necessarily mean finding a story. you should be good at this with a documentary background.

Thanks for the advice, I thought it would be "bad" to try to do that. Find the picture in the picture.

I recently read a few interviews with cinematographer Chris Doyle and he talks quite often about his process with director Wong Kar Wai. I was shocked to see that most of the time they don't know what they're gonna get out of a scene, they kind of "jam" (just like a jazz improvisation) and see where it takes them. If its good for them, certainly its good for me!

EDIT: oh and just cause the band say they want something doesn't mean they should get it.

Yeah, i'll have to learn that part. I guess it depends on your confidence, which comes with experience...

EDIT 2: oh i should also point out the importance of the song. things like colour palette, the structure of the video etc. should be determined by the song. particular types of shot, colour schemes, editing styles will 'click' with a song, others won't. without knowing the song, i and no one else on this forum can give you any useful guidance in these areas. listen to the song. listen to it over and over again. close your eyes. take notes. what colours does it make you think of? what kinds of movement does it make you think of? fast, slow, up, down, static, floating?

Yet another excellent advice. Thanks for the time taken to write, your words have helped catalyze a lot of ideas regarding how to continue!

Thanks folks!!! I'm starting to feel I know a bit more how to do it!!!

At least I'm closer to knowing WHAT to ask, instead of this big fat blurry post!

 

[Beat Takeshi]

I would say that you should shoot a quick test to see if its the look they want to save for headaches later. Its much easier during shooting to hammer out the exact idea you want so you are not driving around looking for places as you shoot which happened on my first video I ever did. I had no plan and left it up to the band for ideas while we shot. Big mistake. A 1 day shoot turned into 5 days and counting so I had to cut that out. It got to the point where I handed them back the footage and never finished because they just wanted to keep shooting. Now 5 years later I make sure almost each shot is thought about except cut aways. I always do that out of habit so I never plan them.
The next video I'm shooting the manager said the same thing...just make it simple because there is only going to be one person in the shots. That actually makes it harder because now you have to make one person interesting for 3.5 minutes and the best way to do that is a lot of locations or kick ass art direction and a lot of cuts. My idea, which fits the song is to do a split personality thing where we see 2 of the artist in the frame. One is always saying sorry and the other is pissed that she thought she needed to say sorry for just being her. Now to figure out what the shots are and locations. After that it should all be cake.

 

[clang]

Do you think it would be awkward if in one scene you see the singer in the beach, in the next the guitarrist playing his acoustic guitar in front of a wall of an abandoned building and such?

Potentially awkward, yes, because if the audience hears a continuous soundtrack and sees a shot of one person singing then another of another person playing, their natural assumption is that both people are at the same location seen from different angles. But if you can 'tell' them otherwise by showing the locations are completely unrelated (along the lines of your example above but maybe even more extreme), then i think it could work fine.

I agree with Beat Takeshi - once you've found some possible locations, do some test footage at each with stand-ins (or the real guys if they're willing) then try a variety of post-production fiddling with Magic Bullet or whatever to show what you think they want - hopefully as some point they'll yell 'yeah, that's the look we want' at a particular shot (but be prepared for them discovering they like different things! ) - that will save everyone a lot of wasted time.

Any chance of you posting the lyrics here? They will very likely suggest some particular structure

 

[dougspice]

Yes, obviously it all depends on the song, but it sounds like they want you to do this precisely because of your background in documentary work.

I highly suggest watching the Sigur Rós film, Heima, which has just been released. It has a very similar tone to what I think you are describing. At the very least, watch the trailer, available on the site. Unfortunately, that won't give you the same effect as taking in the individual scenes, so if you can, see the whole thing.

http://www.heima.co.uk/

You might also want to check out some videos for the band Halou, as I think they fit a similar mould as well. In particular have a look at "Morsecode".

http://halou.com/videos/

 

[DArcyFD]

I had no plan and left it up to the band for ideas while we shot. Big mistake. A 1 day shoot turned into 5 days and counting so I had to cut that out. It got to the point where I handed them back the footage and never finished because they just wanted to keep shooting. Now 5 years later I make sure almost each shot is thought about except cut aways. I always do that out of habit so I never plan them.

that is the best learning experience, bar none. forget reading books, going to classes.... making mistakes is the BEST way to learn! everytime i see a f***up in some thing i did a while ago, it hurts so bad i know i'll never do it again.

 

[DArcyFD]

The thing is, I'm more or less acustomed to working scriptless, just with a few key ideas, letting the tape roll, and then making it happen on the edit. I'm used to going *where* the action happens and then filming as it *develops*. I'm not sure if i could do that with a music video...I mean, we'll have a list of locations and some key shots, the song has a structure, how to make a coherent whole out of it?

don't worry, you can, definitely. especially, in fact, if you've been working on a 'making of' with the band, so i'm guessing you're pretty close, you know them as individuals, they're used to you having a camera around them. you guys already have a creative relationship!

sounds liking a f***ing great basis to be making a video. similar thing happened with me on my first music vid - it was also improvised, just me with a camera and the band in a room over a weekend. we're best friends, we went to high school together.

 

[tomperson]

Hey guys i'm back. I know it's been a while, but i've been quite busy! (which is good!).

Your advice has been very valuable, and really put me on track for this project.

I got "Making Music Videos" from Amazon. I think its mostly suited for those beginning to work in fat productions with big budgets, those that require a big crew, and that go through the whole life cycle of a visual production. It covers every step and person involved in the process.

For more independent minded productions (where you probably won't be shooting 35mm, you won't be doing telecine, the director probably is the DP and editor, etc), you can still get a bigger perspective of the process and you get some valuable advice from industry insiders, but you'll also feel you're reading stuff thats so out of your league that you may lose interest in reading.

All in all a good reading, but not a book that will change the way you approach a music video production.

I got to write a treatment, I went to the possible locations, and we're now almost ready to start shooting. I also started a blog to write about the process, and my first post is regarding writing your first video treatment http://pan0rama.blogspot.com

i hope to hear your comments.