Steve Laramie
Veteran
Hey I am a DP and I have always lit with tungstun lights. I was wondering if kino flow was a good investment to buy a kit.
tungsten vs kino flo
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
- Start date
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
I absolutely love Kinos.
Yes yes yes. Obviously, the light will much softer and harder to control the spill. But yes !
Yes yes yes. Obviously, the light will much softer and harder to control the spill. But yes !
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
It's not necessary to buy the Kino Flo brand of fixtures to get soft, cool light output. There are plenty of other competitor models around including our Cool Lights models which give just as good an effect. We're a site sponsor and we have hundreds of our fixtures in use by DVXUsers and others so there's a track record there to back that up.
NOMADIC
Major Contributor
richard...I'm sure you know about them, and looked in to them...but what are your thoughts on the GE cinema flo tubes?
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
They're just fine. As long as they have color temps in the standards of at least 3200K and 5600K they're great for our purposes--and you can usually bet that if someone went to the trouble to engineer those particular color temps that the CRI will be pretty high as well.
To me though I don't see so many differences between all of them and they all fall about in the same price range. The Osram Dulux L and Studiolines are great as well. And they should all work in most fixtures too as the 55w standard is pretty clear and well implemented. As for tubes where there is extra magenta in the phosphor, its really not necessary unless you're shooting real film and as we know most of the people on this site are not shooting real film anymore.
To me though I don't see so many differences between all of them and they all fall about in the same price range. The Osram Dulux L and Studiolines are great as well. And they should all work in most fixtures too as the 55w standard is pretty clear and well implemented. As for tubes where there is extra magenta in the phosphor, its really not necessary unless you're shooting real film and as we know most of the people on this site are not shooting real film anymore.
themagickite
Well-known member
how do the cool lights compare to the caselites? and are the cool light bulbs suitable for use with film emulsion?
I've used them for interviews. the build quality is first rate.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Hi,
Caselites are a metal portable fixture made by Lowel and we have a new plastic portable fixture coming that is more lightweight than the caselite plus available in a 6x55w configuration which the caselite isn't. We also have a dimmable version or non-dimmable. To my knowledge the caselites are only bank selectable just like our non-dimmable version.
Cool Lights bulbs may exhibit the same characteristics most fluorescent bulbs, even the highest CRI will exhibit -- a green spike with film which wouldn't normally be seen with digital mediums. The cure is to use minus green gel or buy the kino phosphor coated bulbs. The fixture itself plays no role in any of this though and you can use our tubes in a Kino Flo or vice verse.
Gopher_Greene
Well-known member
It may not be necessary to buy Kino Flo brand, but I have absolutly nothing bad to say about them. I find that having the banks switchable is all the control I need. Also one advantage of owning Kinos is their the industry standard, so any Gaffer you hire will probably have expereince with them and be able to do things like remove a single socket and tape it up in the roof of a tight space like a car. I'm not saying Richard doesn't have a good product, I don't know cause I have never used them, but I'm always suspicious of the quality of anything made in China. Just ask Mattle if they still think it was a good idea to move their manufacturing their.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I feel that it all depends on what you are doing and WHY you want to use fluoros. I own 22 tunsgten instruments and 7 fluoro instruments. I find that I like the fluoros more as BG and accent lights than as a key source on talent. I find that a tungsten instrument with a Chimera and eggcrate gives me a better output, better wrap and softer source. I have done shoots with only Kinos and it is nice that they are cooler and use less current. But for the look, I get better results with my tungsten stuff.
OTOH, if you are shooting something more narrative (I do mostly interviews and tabletop), I think Kinos are a better way to go, they are quicker and for lighting up an entire scene, if you are going for a softlight wash, rather than lots of Chiascuro type of lighting, the Kinos are easier and quicker. If I can ever get my comedy pilot off of the ground, I would undoutedly use Kinos to light it, it would fit the look I envision for it better than my traditional lights.
Just depends on what you are shooting and how you like to light. Both are excellent and both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Dan
OTOH, if you are shooting something more narrative (I do mostly interviews and tabletop), I think Kinos are a better way to go, they are quicker and for lighting up an entire scene, if you are going for a softlight wash, rather than lots of Chiascuro type of lighting, the Kinos are easier and quicker. If I can ever get my comedy pilot off of the ground, I would undoutedly use Kinos to light it, it would fit the look I envision for it better than my traditional lights.
Just depends on what you are shooting and how you like to light. Both are excellent and both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Dan
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
Dan, would you be willing to list off what all those fixtures are you use and a rough guess of how often you use it?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hi Shawn:
Sure...
Tungsten
1. Arri 150 fresnels (three)
My favorite model of light. I love to use them as nook lights and as BG lights to highlight plants and floor features with uplighting. They are expensive but crafted really well. I love my 150s and they are great for tucking in behind small objects on shelves to backlight them or to spot a small accent or slash where you need it. Light, small and easy to mount on T-bar clamps.
I use these on every shoot.
2. Arri 300 fresnel (two)
I really like using my 300s as well but they are harder to hide than the 150s. I use them a lot raised on stands about 8ft in the air, punching down on a flexfill placed at the foot of the interview subject for face fill/glamour look
I use this light on every shoot
3. Arri 650 fresnel (three)
I usually use an Arri 650 frensel through a small Chimera with a 40 degree eggcrate as a key source. Yes, I know that an open face would provide more even coverage in a softbox but I only have a 1K open face, not the Arri 600 open face. The 650 fresnel still provides a great look. They are also handy for throwing gobo and cucoloris patterns up on BGs, walls, etc.
I use these as a key on every shoot.
4. Arri 1K open face
I only have one of these. It's a handy light for aiming up at a ceiling to raise overall ambient light levels but I find it too harsh and too much output for most single interviews with a small Chimera. OTOH, I occasionally pull out my medium Chimera and it is perfect for this 36"x48" Chimera as a key source. But more heat and more output.
I only use this light on about 30% of my shoots.
5. Mole Richardson Mighty 2k open face (two)
This is the largest tungsten fixture that can sometimes be used without a generator on household current, although it will pop many household breakers. It is safer on industrial 20 amp circuits. Some houses have 15 amp service, some have 20 amp. I have found that this fixture is more useful to me with a 1,500 watt or 1k bulb. It is metal, heavy duty and has a metal yoke so that I can use it through a medium or large Chimera as an overhead key source for multiple person interviews. I float it over the camera on a Manfrotto 9' matte black boompole and because the metal yolk locks so positively, it holds in position even with the weight of a medium Chimera. I have also used it outdoors. Yes, if you cover it with full CTB or dichroics, it loses half of it's output but a 1k daylight balanced light can still be useful in certain situations in shade or interiors with skylights. It's a nice light but I only use it once in a while.
6. Lowel Pro-Light 250 open face (four)
I like the ProLights even though the barn doors are cheap and wear out. They have more output than the Arri 150s so I use them when I need more oomph than a 150 and my 300 fresnels are already working. These little lights get very hot for their size so I have to be careful with them. I sometimes use them on a C-stand with a 40" arm over the camera as an eyelight with the doors really squeezed down and on a dimmer. Adds the glimmer and a little bit of warm fill on a face. Allows you to "paint" in as much as you need.
I use these on about half of my shoots.
7. Lowel V-Lights 500 watt open face (four)
The Lowel V-Lights are a 500 watt open face broad source light. They are not very controllable but they are good for lighting up green screens and I like them for painting walls and curtains with uplighting (typically on dimmers). Not a very versatile light but they do what they do well.
I use these on about 20% of my shoots.
8. Ikea MR-16 tiny Source Four (three)
These are the fabled mini Source Four lights that have been well discussed here on DVXUser. I picked up three of them and they are a really fun little light. I would like to use them more but they do take some time to setup, adjust and tweak but they are great for casting patterns and colored BGs for interviews. I have used them to cast abstract and window patterns on boring blank white walls and they work very well. I need to hunt down some of the 75 watt MR-16 bulbs, they are hard to find but they are available. If you have not picked up one or two of these, I highly suggest picking a couple up before Ikea discontinues them. I also spent an extra $25.00 per light adding a Matthews 5/8" receiver so that they can be easily mounted on light stands although I often use them on the floor on a baby floor stand. They are a very cool little light and they come with all kinds of gobos, iris and cutters plus a magnifying lens.
Fluorescents
1. Homemade Kino Flo Diva 200 lights (four)
I couldn't bring myself to spend $2,500.00 for four of these so I made my own instead for about $700.00 for four of them. They are a dual 55 watt biax fixture with a high speed 30Khz ballast, nice reflectors and black wooden cases. They do not have barndoors as a real Kino does but I typically use them with gridcloth on the front as a large soft source so this works fine. My only expensive concession was buying four of the real Kino Flo Diva lollipop mounts, I could not find a better solution. I did use baby plates, etc. but the Kino lollipops are better and allow for more fine adjustment and quicker and easier to use than the baby plate in a C-stand grip head. I have been using the Kino Flo tru-color tubes as well, usually the daylight balanced ones.
The only thing I don't like about my lights is that they are relatively fragile, there are no barndoors and nothing to protect the tubes so transporting them means I have to be extra careful with them. But it was worth it to save thousands of dollars. I also put an extra ten feet of cable between the tube receptacle and the ballast so that I can detach the tubes and place them in tight areas, much like some of the higher end Kinos can do.
They were not hard to make, only took me about two hours per fixture to assemble from pre-fab parts and look professional. The resulting light looks good.
I only use these lights when I am shooting daylight interiors and cannot block the windows. They work very well for this.
2. Chinese-made Diva 400 knockoff (two)
I decided to try one of the no-name Chinese Diva 400 knockoffs. The light is fine but the first unit I bought was defective. I shipped it back to FotoDiox and they shipped a replacement. I used the replacement for a while and it worked fine but the workmanship is what you would expect for a $200.00 version of a $1,000.00 light. Tubes are tubes and the ballast is flicker free but now one of the banks has died. It is out of warranty so someday when I have the time, I wil have to tear it apart and fix it.
I am not using it much these days since it only has a single bank working. You get what you pay for. I kind of bought it more as an experiment than to count on it as a working light because I knew it would probably not be very reliable. My homemade Diva 200s are very well engineered and have never gone down in two years because I used quality components and hand wired them myself.
3. Various GE/Jasco Home Depot lights (15 various sizes and lengths)
I have bought quite a few of the GE/Jasco 20" undercounter lights. I have modified some of them with various mounts. The ballasts are all modern, quiet and flicker-free. When I have time, I love to wrap these lights in various color party gels and use them to backlight items on bookshelves and on cabinets. I created a fantasy workshop set for a documentary I produced early this year for the Platinum Edition Peter Pan DVD for Disney and I used dozens of these GE/Jasco lights and well as various small Ikea and Home Depot LED strip lights in various colors to light up the shelves and nooks in the workshop set. I have also modified some of the smaller battery powered 8" fluoros by lining them with aluminum flashing and inserting Kino tubes for car interiors at night, they work great, although they do eat through the batteries quickly.
I use these lights whenever I have time to really light a set properly but I often only have about an hour to setup so in those cases, I cannot spend the time to use these lights.
Sure...
Tungsten
1. Arri 150 fresnels (three)
My favorite model of light. I love to use them as nook lights and as BG lights to highlight plants and floor features with uplighting. They are expensive but crafted really well. I love my 150s and they are great for tucking in behind small objects on shelves to backlight them or to spot a small accent or slash where you need it. Light, small and easy to mount on T-bar clamps.
I use these on every shoot.
2. Arri 300 fresnel (two)
I really like using my 300s as well but they are harder to hide than the 150s. I use them a lot raised on stands about 8ft in the air, punching down on a flexfill placed at the foot of the interview subject for face fill/glamour look
I use this light on every shoot
3. Arri 650 fresnel (three)
I usually use an Arri 650 frensel through a small Chimera with a 40 degree eggcrate as a key source. Yes, I know that an open face would provide more even coverage in a softbox but I only have a 1K open face, not the Arri 600 open face. The 650 fresnel still provides a great look. They are also handy for throwing gobo and cucoloris patterns up on BGs, walls, etc.
I use these as a key on every shoot.
4. Arri 1K open face
I only have one of these. It's a handy light for aiming up at a ceiling to raise overall ambient light levels but I find it too harsh and too much output for most single interviews with a small Chimera. OTOH, I occasionally pull out my medium Chimera and it is perfect for this 36"x48" Chimera as a key source. But more heat and more output.
I only use this light on about 30% of my shoots.
5. Mole Richardson Mighty 2k open face (two)
This is the largest tungsten fixture that can sometimes be used without a generator on household current, although it will pop many household breakers. It is safer on industrial 20 amp circuits. Some houses have 15 amp service, some have 20 amp. I have found that this fixture is more useful to me with a 1,500 watt or 1k bulb. It is metal, heavy duty and has a metal yoke so that I can use it through a medium or large Chimera as an overhead key source for multiple person interviews. I float it over the camera on a Manfrotto 9' matte black boompole and because the metal yolk locks so positively, it holds in position even with the weight of a medium Chimera. I have also used it outdoors. Yes, if you cover it with full CTB or dichroics, it loses half of it's output but a 1k daylight balanced light can still be useful in certain situations in shade or interiors with skylights. It's a nice light but I only use it once in a while.
6. Lowel Pro-Light 250 open face (four)
I like the ProLights even though the barn doors are cheap and wear out. They have more output than the Arri 150s so I use them when I need more oomph than a 150 and my 300 fresnels are already working. These little lights get very hot for their size so I have to be careful with them. I sometimes use them on a C-stand with a 40" arm over the camera as an eyelight with the doors really squeezed down and on a dimmer. Adds the glimmer and a little bit of warm fill on a face. Allows you to "paint" in as much as you need.
I use these on about half of my shoots.
7. Lowel V-Lights 500 watt open face (four)
The Lowel V-Lights are a 500 watt open face broad source light. They are not very controllable but they are good for lighting up green screens and I like them for painting walls and curtains with uplighting (typically on dimmers). Not a very versatile light but they do what they do well.
I use these on about 20% of my shoots.
8. Ikea MR-16 tiny Source Four (three)
These are the fabled mini Source Four lights that have been well discussed here on DVXUser. I picked up three of them and they are a really fun little light. I would like to use them more but they do take some time to setup, adjust and tweak but they are great for casting patterns and colored BGs for interviews. I have used them to cast abstract and window patterns on boring blank white walls and they work very well. I need to hunt down some of the 75 watt MR-16 bulbs, they are hard to find but they are available. If you have not picked up one or two of these, I highly suggest picking a couple up before Ikea discontinues them. I also spent an extra $25.00 per light adding a Matthews 5/8" receiver so that they can be easily mounted on light stands although I often use them on the floor on a baby floor stand. They are a very cool little light and they come with all kinds of gobos, iris and cutters plus a magnifying lens.
Fluorescents
1. Homemade Kino Flo Diva 200 lights (four)
I couldn't bring myself to spend $2,500.00 for four of these so I made my own instead for about $700.00 for four of them. They are a dual 55 watt biax fixture with a high speed 30Khz ballast, nice reflectors and black wooden cases. They do not have barndoors as a real Kino does but I typically use them with gridcloth on the front as a large soft source so this works fine. My only expensive concession was buying four of the real Kino Flo Diva lollipop mounts, I could not find a better solution. I did use baby plates, etc. but the Kino lollipops are better and allow for more fine adjustment and quicker and easier to use than the baby plate in a C-stand grip head. I have been using the Kino Flo tru-color tubes as well, usually the daylight balanced ones.
The only thing I don't like about my lights is that they are relatively fragile, there are no barndoors and nothing to protect the tubes so transporting them means I have to be extra careful with them. But it was worth it to save thousands of dollars. I also put an extra ten feet of cable between the tube receptacle and the ballast so that I can detach the tubes and place them in tight areas, much like some of the higher end Kinos can do.
They were not hard to make, only took me about two hours per fixture to assemble from pre-fab parts and look professional. The resulting light looks good.
I only use these lights when I am shooting daylight interiors and cannot block the windows. They work very well for this.
2. Chinese-made Diva 400 knockoff (two)
I decided to try one of the no-name Chinese Diva 400 knockoffs. The light is fine but the first unit I bought was defective. I shipped it back to FotoDiox and they shipped a replacement. I used the replacement for a while and it worked fine but the workmanship is what you would expect for a $200.00 version of a $1,000.00 light. Tubes are tubes and the ballast is flicker free but now one of the banks has died. It is out of warranty so someday when I have the time, I wil have to tear it apart and fix it.
I am not using it much these days since it only has a single bank working. You get what you pay for. I kind of bought it more as an experiment than to count on it as a working light because I knew it would probably not be very reliable. My homemade Diva 200s are very well engineered and have never gone down in two years because I used quality components and hand wired them myself.
3. Various GE/Jasco Home Depot lights (15 various sizes and lengths)
I have bought quite a few of the GE/Jasco 20" undercounter lights. I have modified some of them with various mounts. The ballasts are all modern, quiet and flicker-free. When I have time, I love to wrap these lights in various color party gels and use them to backlight items on bookshelves and on cabinets. I created a fantasy workshop set for a documentary I produced early this year for the Platinum Edition Peter Pan DVD for Disney and I used dozens of these GE/Jasco lights and well as various small Ikea and Home Depot LED strip lights in various colors to light up the shelves and nooks in the workshop set. I have also modified some of the smaller battery powered 8" fluoros by lining them with aluminum flashing and inserting Kino tubes for car interiors at night, they work great, although they do eat through the batteries quickly.
I use these lights whenever I have time to really light a set properly but I often only have about an hour to setup so in those cases, I cannot spend the time to use these lights.
Last edited:
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
wow!! I really appreciate that, I seem to be following that path closely
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Yep, I am always surprised when you talk with other camera guys, it seems that most of us use the same tools with variations, because we hone down to what gets the job done.
My favorite thing is to create/re-deploy products that were never intended for video/film production to video/film production and to get away with it. Like the homemade Kinos, they are mostly components from aquarium lights. Or the Ikea lights, they were obviously never intended for video production but work really nicely and are dirt cheap. One of my best buys was a couple of Contico yellow plastic tool boxes I bought at Home Depot 8 years ago for about $20.00 ea. I have taken them all over the world, flown, drove, shipped them and they have held up amazingly well. They were cheap, yet heavy duty and can hold most of what I need to shoot interviews on locations, other than light stands. What a bargain!
Dan
My favorite thing is to create/re-deploy products that were never intended for video/film production to video/film production and to get away with it. Like the homemade Kinos, they are mostly components from aquarium lights. Or the Ikea lights, they were obviously never intended for video production but work really nicely and are dirt cheap. One of my best buys was a couple of Contico yellow plastic tool boxes I bought at Home Depot 8 years ago for about $20.00 ea. I have taken them all over the world, flown, drove, shipped them and they have held up amazingly well. They were cheap, yet heavy duty and can hold most of what I need to shoot interviews on locations, other than light stands. What a bargain!
Dan
Chan Ee Jien
Active member
Very interesting. I wonder what others think about this.
Mind educating on what you mean exactly by better output and 'wrap'?
I never used Kino or fluorescents before so I wouldn't know anything about them (practical). The only time I saw a Kino in action was also for an interview session and the show had relatively flat lighting.
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
Bump, so i can reference Dan's awesome post again
Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
Thanks for the bump shawn - hadnt read dan's post again. Copying and saving that one. Thanks for the info dan! Inspiring me to go get more little lights - my wife says thanks.
Cedric Akins
Well-known member
Very interesting thread. I actually like lighting and find this information very useful.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
What ballast did you use Dan on the homemade units? Fulham?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hi Richard:
Fulham Workhorse 55s. They seem to be pretty great ballasts, never a flicker or flutter in two years of using them.
Dan