Is it just me, or do most Indie films look like they were shot in their basement?

Fugitive said:
White walls are a bane of Indie Film-makers. They make films look very unprofessional. Try to paint them, or decorate them as Blaine suggested. They wont look much like a basements anymore.
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Had to reply to this, as my new film has a few rooms with white walls.

Watch Bourne Identity. You'll see many room with NOTHING on the walls. Europe in general has many, many bare walls. And offices as well have BARE walls. Homes in America and professional offices don't normally have bare walls. But, the things I just mentioned do, and most people will buy that. One more thing as far as look goes. I think costumes are EXTREMELY important to the film as well. A great costume designer can do wonders in the professional feel of your film, as well as a pro makeup artist. You want your actors to look like actors, not just your friends from down the street, if you know what I mean.
 
Brandon Rice said:
Had to reply to this, as my new film has a few rooms with white walls.

Watch Bourne Identity. You'll see many room with NOTHING on the walls. Europe in general has many, many bare walls. And offices as well have BARE walls. Homes in America and professional offices don't normally have bare walls. But, the things I just mentioned do, and most people will buy that. One more thing as far as look goes. I think costumes are EXTREMELY important to the film as well. A great costume designer can do wonders in the professional feel of your film, as well as a pro makeup artist. You want your actors to look like actors, not just your friends from down the street, if you know what I mean.
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Inappropriate wall treatments, or basically ANY extraneous discordant elements, are the bane of Indie film makers. Basically, the old cliche is true: There should be little accidental in your frame, unless accidental is the style of the film, in which case it better well be professionally accidental.
 
just to add to what most people are saying..... make sure your sound is good.. The owners of Juniper Post at the DVX bootcamp couldnt make it any more clearer that the sound of your movie enhances everything. If you have crappy sound quality, then your audience isnt going to enjoy watching the movie as much.
 
Ner0 said:
If you look at any high budget hollywood film, I notice several things.

1.) The raw *resolution* of the image is extremely good because it's shot on 35mm using really expensive lenses and cameras and all that production crap.

2.) You always see the glint in people's eyes and people's faces are sculpted in natural light.

3.) The compositions are always very *formal*. That is.. they follow the rule of thirds, they are well balanced, the colors are pleasing, all that jazz.
...
.
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While the things you say is true, the big difference in a budgted project vs a no-budget project is the time invested in the project.

Most indie film makers who shoot films on zero budget work day jobs. We see our weekends as production shooting days and the weekday nights as production planning time (script writing, editing, pre-production or reviewing of footage) combine this with family needs and everything else....the time invested in a project can be rather small.

Anything that has great value has a great amount of time invested in it. As a film maker we try to take a story that has little value and pump time and skill in to it to increase value. A film that lacks invested time will have little value, and that is the chief complaint about most indie films from the film makers themselves...not having enough time to make the film to be what it should be.
 
I don't think I agree with the previous quoted statement above... about the raw resolution, and glint, etc. Some movies in hollywood go away from all those things... yes some movies ARE the traditional movie, like you spoke of... but more and more we're seeing more progressive films that don't follow such rules, but are stilll accepted, and seen by the lay person as a hollywood film... I want people to see my movie, though Indie, and say... I was really entertained by that... Just as they would in the theatre.
 
It was shot there...and set there.

It was shot there...and set there.

Bsmith said:
In reguards to that link of the trailer... http://www.behindthenine.com/trailers/Bt9_trailer.mov

I actually thought that looked pretty good. Of course that was just the trailer. I thought the image was a little dark. Also I wasn't really paying attention to the audio, but that didn't sound to bad.

what seemed fake about it to you? The fact it looks more video than film? that might be it. Other than that...acting/dialoge is the biggest reason anyting seems fake I think
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Thanks.

That's my little indie feature.

I do believe that we made a bad decision to darken the film as a style choice, we thought is looked fine when projected well but it has caused a comment or two among those who've screened it.

I'm flattered that many have viewed the trailer...albeit last year. The film is available through Netflix if anyone is curious to see the whole movie.

I would add that this story is actually set in a basement so that does have a factor in why our movie looks like it was shot in a basement.

We should have gotten a set designer and that would have helped quite a bit.

Our DP was good. Any faults must be put on my shoulders and chalked up to inexperience and limited budget.

The comments about bad sound and acting? What? In the trailer you can see this? I don't agree. You might find some examples of iffy performances in the film but for the most part the cast is good...again chalk it up to bad writing or directing (IF YOU'VE SEEN the WHOLE FILM) and the sound I'll defend. I don't think there are any sound issues to speak of in the film or the trailer...so pardon me if the comments related to sound problems weren't in reference to my trailer, they sounded like they were.

I shot that film 5 years ago and hope to shoot another feature in the near future with many lessons learned.

Again, thanks to everyone who watched the trailer. Thanks for posting it SexyPants...and I'd love to invite folks to rent Behind the Nine from Netflix too!

-Martin Kelley
 
F*%$ it! just go out there and shoot don't know what your doing? who cares try to get the shots you see in your head. when you see how bad it came out or how you couldnt get that shot you wanted because of this or that, that's learning and you'll be ready for your next film the good one.
 
don't loose sight of what you want by listeing to people tell you, you need a good DP or lighting crew. Remember most of us here, are our DP's our Lighting guy, Gaffers, Grip boy and the director all at once. If you keep listening to people tell you, you need this and that, you'll never do anything, we cant afford to hire people, Were Independent directors that means I independintley wrote, shot, lite, directed, produced,edited,scored and convinced people to show up for the shoot and argued with everyone, as they yelled at you for making them stay up till the sun came up inside a musty basement of a hollywood video store while you got the perfect shot of an inannimate cardboard box with paper machey eyes, that you drew with crayons as it killed a bunch of horrible actors (also known as your friends), and they yelled and bitched at you because they werent getting paid. and you felt so alone, like you were the only one who really cared about this project, but you stood your ground and took no for answer!
 
Although I'm very new to film, I agree with many comments in here. I planned to shoot my feature film in about two to three years. In the mean time, I tried to learn as much as I can including reading this thread. And as an independent film maker (or will be), we a take a many positions since we do not have the budget to hire professionals.

The trailer posted in this thread look kind of dark for my taste, but here is what I think. If the poster of the trailer didn't say that this is an Indie film (in fact let's say that the poster said this film is by Hollywood), would you still have the same comments?
 
What you should do

What you should do

This will sound a bit strange coming from a teenager who has only made some shorts on a crappy camera with his friends, but it doesn't matter where you shoot or what your story is about, just make sure you can entertain the audience using very little money!
 
You may just be a teenager, but you laid down some wisdom that many older folks would be wise to heed. ENTERTAIN THE AUDIENCE. The rest is all just details.
 
You can edit a crap performance into something brilliant. you can edit a bad story into something that makes sense and is appealing.

You can't color correct bad lighting, and you can't re-frame a shot.
 
craigbowman said:
Q: Mr. Indie, can I see the business plan for your film project?
A: My plan is in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how did you cast your actors?
A: That was easy, they're all my friends and relatives.

Q: Mr. Indie, can I see your shooting script?
A: I'm directing and I already see the whole movie in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how many months have you been reheasing?
A: My friends and relatives have busy lives, so were just gonna do a quick walk through of each shot before we film it.

Q: Mr. Indie, have you tried blocking any scenes yet?
A: What the @#$%$ is blocking? Speak English for @#@#$% sake.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you going to do camera and lighting tests?
A: This filmmaking stuff is expensive. We're gonna rent what we need when we do the shoot.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you gonna study some of the great resources out there like the Hollywood Camerawork DVD series?
A: Like I said, we're renting. Why should I blow the little money I have on that stuff?

Q: Mr. Indie, do you think you're not putting in enough effort on planning and preparation?
A: Hey, I've been busting my ass to get this project off the ground for months now. Like I told you, I can see it all in my head! I'm not a stinkin' accountant. I don't need a friggin' business plan for a twenty minute film or spend all freekin' summer doing a bunch of stupid paperwork and looking at DVDs. All I gotta do is get out there and shoot it!

Q: Mr. Indie, what made you decide to make a film this summer?
A: Well, its the summer coming up after all. I thought it was about time I made a serious movie.
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Great post.

On the other hand I've seen new film makers worry too much about all the technical details they don't know that they never get around to shooting. Since no amount of planning will make up for a lack of experience. And experience certainly can optimize the amount of prep work required to get the same result.

In the end, just shoot as much as you can and prepare as much as you can. Make as many films as you can, and learn from the many mistakes you are sure to make. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Make as many films as you can and they will get better, easier to make, and easier to realize your vision, as you make more.

Too many people want to make a super slick first project that rivals a big budget film with a huge experienced crew. Then they over process and over effect the final project. And then wonder why it doesn't look slick.
 
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i dont remember who said it, about shallow depth of field being the underlying cause of amatuer vs professional looking films, but i still don't buy the fact that a 35mm adaptor automatically makes your stuff look like film. i've seen some pretty bad looking stuff from people with 35mm adaptors who think they have a "film look."

didn't think that guy's trailer was all that bad either. at least i have an idea of what it is about which is more than i can say for a lot of filmmakers who have $15k to $30k short films that look good and are about nothing.

also Aaron_Dixon hit the nail on the head to me a few posts up which i think a whole lot of people forget. entertain the audience. it's easy to forget that when you get caught up in a lot of the technical aspects of filmmaking.

On the other hand I've seen new film makers worry too much about all the technical details they don't know that they never get around to shooting. Since no amount of planning will make up for a lack of experience. And experience certainly can optimize the amount of prep work required to get the same result.
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EXACTLY.

a lot of people made good points in this thread.
 
Aaron_Dixon said:
This will sound a bit strange coming from a teenager who has only made some shorts on a crappy camera with his friends, but it doesn't matter where you shoot or what your story is about, just make sure you can entertain the audience using very little money!
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However, the contrapositive of this statement is also true (if you don't entertain your audience it is because the story is not there).

...and I think that's considered a contrapositive.
 
Arson said:
You can edit a crap performance into something brilliant. you can edit a bad story into something that makes sense and is appealing.

You can't color correct bad lighting, and you can't re-frame a shot.
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I disagree with the first two statements, and somewhat disagree with the last two.

You can color correct bad color temperature from your lights, but you cannot fix bad lighting in post. You can also re-frame a shot to a limited extent.

I see the point your are making with the last two comments, but I do disagree completely with the first two.
 
entertain the audience. it's easy to forget that when you get caught up in a lot of the technical aspects of filmmaking.

How and why your movie entertains an audience is, in most cases, decided on before shooting. When filming you should be able to put your time and energy into the technical aspects so that the entertaining parts of the film aren't going to be missed because... can't hear dialog, can see who's talking, ect...
Now this isn't to any extreme by any means as new, better ideas tend to come out while filming, but anyone who says a good story can make people "ignore" horrid technical quality doesn't understand a normal audience.
 
Having just come off a two-camera, one unit CineAlta studio feature (all DGA, SAG, IA and so on), I have a better idea now for how digital features often fall short of the benchmark we're accustomed to from their celluloid counterparts. At least, on this one, I've seen what happens when you throw feature-quality and feature-quantity assets at a HD show.

The fact that you're shooting on video or digital has historically meant that you're operating on a diminished budget. This is changing... slowly. While we had far less than most of the studio's film features to work with, we didn't want for much. There were crane days and Steadi weeks and so-forth.

As a generalization, I would say that lighting your project exactly as you would for film, with appropriate modifications for the digital medium, will add the most production value... at first glance.

A two-camera show, with one common location for most days, will require a few tons of grip and electrics for even the most pedestrian of scenes. Crew has to be top notch and in adequate supply. That meant ten hands across grip and electrics for us (with no dedicated pre-rig crew on most days).

Within this well illuminated frame you must have professional and appropriate art direction and properties. This feature I just finished had no less than six art department and deco people on-set at all times. There were some dept. heads for both who we didn't see as much, but they were squirreled-away somewhere.

A DIT is important. We had one and he brought a huge amount of continuity and artistry to the show. We could've shot flatter and faster, but he gave us a lot of in-camera value that we never would have been able to realize (or would have likely attempted) without his expert help.

Again, based on this most recent experience, I'd strive to have a dedicated technician with calibrated monitors and live paintbox (CCU) capabilities at all times. Perhaps not possible with HVX, but many cameras like RED and SI certainly make provision for this person in their standard toolsets (like LUTs and so on).

[Shallow] Depth of Field certainly has its place in making digitally acquired cinema more closely resemble celluloid film, but it doesn't free the filmmaker from the conventions and rules of lighting, art direction, decoration and what your subjuct does in front of the lens. A great deal of the DOF zealots argue that shallow DOF is the answer to closing the visual gap between digital and celluloid. Not completely, but it does play a contributing role in getting us there.

Blocking is huge. If your actors and crew are bumbling their way through a scene, it'll betray your good work in glorious and embarrassing ways on-screen.

Actors and crew need to block, rehearse (again and again, if necessary) and then be able to repeat the execution of a scene with finesse and reliability. I cannot stress how important blocking and rehearsals are to a professional-looking product. Here are the steps for how it should be done.
  1. Block the scene with your 1st team actors, director and deptartment heads in an on-set read-through. This is where you stage the master and begin planning your cut-aways. Having it on paper in advance of the shoot is helpful, but not typical or always practical. Dolly and crane grip and 2nd AC mark rough start and end positions for gear and talent respectively.
  2. Release 1st team and begin lighting and camera movement for the master based on your blocking. Bring in 2nd team (stand-ins) during this process as necessary. Do not ask any craftspeople to stand-in as it slows the tech process. Grip and 2nd AC should refine marks for actors and camera position.
  3. Bring in 1st team for final rehearsal.
  4. Make-up and wardrobe comes in for "last-look" at talent.
  5. Rehearse tech and talent through scene. Should always be rehearsed as if the camera is rolling - and sometimes it might be. Pull up any marks that will appear on-camera. Tiny dots of tape or natural marks (like a twig or leaf in a park) are often used to replace the larger marks.
  6. Picture is up. Camera and sound capture the performance.
  7. Rinse, repeat as necessary.
As JR Hudson has stated, poor script, direction and acting will kill everything you can throw at a show from the crafts standpoint. Write it well, cast it well and have the direction to back it up and the show might well resemble a feature when you're done with it.

That's all I have to say about tha-at.

e
 
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