My first attempt at editing a dialogue scene - need a little help!

Deuceofspades

Deuceofspades

Veteran
Hi Guys.

Today I edited a dialogue scene with Vegas.

Shot with DVX100B at 24P, captured in 24p mode in Vegas. Had no problems while editing. When looking at clip online, seems the edits are not smooths. Almost as though I see another frame flashing in there before the cut? Is it normal? Am I imagining things?

I did not use any transitions, just a clean cut. Should I use a transition for something like this? Any advice appreciated. Note that I had the different cuts on different tracks (does it matter?) and that while reviewing the edits frame by frame I did not see anything abnormal (black frame, dropped frame etc...)

Here is the scene, (Hall of Fame hotrod legend Gene Winfield remembers street racing with Johnny Callaway):

​
 
Couldn't watch the video on my work computer but are you sure you haven't accidently left a blank frame in between the cuts? Zoom right in on timeline and check it out.
 
tmnt said:
Couldn't watch the video on my work computer but are you sure you haven't accidently left a blank frame in between the cuts? Zoom right in on timeline and check it out.
Click to expand...

no, no blank frames. Did check. Also the tracks are stacked so they basically go from one to the next, overlapping each other on seperate tracks - hence impossible to have blank frames or accidental fades etc...

I rendered as a .wm file... COuld it be the problem?
 
I'm not sure I saw what you were talking about.

I did see a lot of this, though:

1192635213.jpg


This indicates a framerate switcheroo somewhere -- either you rendered as 30p (WMV at 29.97), or the host site converted it.

Because 24p doesn't have enough motion samples to make a good conversion to 30p, you'll get artifacting like that -- and because of the timebase change, it could account for what you're seeing in the footage.
 
In Vegas

Nake sure when doing a split, that you expand the track out as much as possible so you can be sure to be seeing a frame by frame representation of what you are cutting as well as ensuring you are not getting an accidental overlap.

Give us a screen shot of your work in progress n Vegas ?
 
David Jimerson said:
I'm not sure I saw what you were talking about.

I did see a lot of this, though:

1192635213.jpg


This indicates a framerate switcheroo somewhere -- either you rendered as 30p (WMV at 29.97), or the host site converted it.

Because 24p doesn't have enough motion samples to make a good conversion to 30p, you'll get artifacting like that -- and because of the timebase change, it could account for what you're seeing in the footage.
Click to expand...

Good insight. Brings up a few questions:

Can you tell me when recording in 24p with DVX100B, what is the best way to go to

1)- capture the footage in vegas (I assume you want to capture it in 24p right?)

2)- render the footage for internet (what settings would you use?)

3)- render the final footage for DVD (best image quality possible) burning.

This is my first time working in 24p and it still feels a bit confusing.

ALSO THE DAILYMOTION WEBSITE WHERE THE VIDEO IS HOSTED IS IN FRANCE AND I JUST NOTICED THEY RECOMMEND A FRAME RATE OF 25fps (??? is that a weird number?). I did render my clip to the 29.07 frame rate , which was the default in vegas, so you are right they probaly converted it then to 25fps.
 
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First, for details on 24p/Vegas/DVX, go here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=46677

Rendering for the internet depends on the needs of whatever your hosting site is, but if you have the choice, render at 23.976.

Rendering for DVD -- use the DVD Architect 24p template(s) under MPEG-2.

I wouldn't worry about the frame rate of 25 fps -- that's what the TV standard in Europe is; it's irrelevant to computer display.
 
J.R. Hudson said:
In Vegas

Nake sure when doing a split, that you expand the track out as much as possible so you can be sure to be seeing a frame by frame representation of what you are cutting as well as ensuring you are not getting an accidental overlap.

Give us a screen shot of your work in progress n Vegas ?
Click to expand...

I'm at work right now, but when I go back home (where I am editing) I will do that. But as I said the video tracks were stacked, so overlaps are impossible.

Ex: One take on a video track, the other above it, overlapping. because they are not on the same track there is no crossfade. I also did not at all program any fade in or fade out curves. So the cut should be "cut and dry" sorta speak.
 
David Jimerson said:
First, for details on 24p/Vegas/DVX, go here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=46677

Rendering for the internet depends on the needs of whatever your hosting site is, but if you have the choice, render at 23.976.

Rendering for DVD -- use the DVD Architect 24p template(s) under MPEG-2.

I wouldn't worry about the frame rate of 25 fps -- that's what the TV standard in Europe is; it's irrelevant to computer display.
Click to expand...

David, great tutorial video! Boy you make it sound so simple editing 24p in Vegas and you are right IT IS! Now that I understand it.

A few questions:

1. I had capture set up to 24p, from the tutorial I understand I did not have to do that, but if I did do that, does it matter one way or the other?

2. So I should have rendered at 24fps then?

3. What program did you use to make the cool titles on your tutorial?
 
1) Not sure what you mean -- there's nothing to "set up" for capture in 24p. There's a "custom frame rate" under "Analog device options," but that has nothing to do with capturing digitally.

2) Yes.

3) Vegas.
 
David Jimerson said:
1) Not sure what you mean -- there's nothing to "set up" for capture in 24p. There's a "custom frame rate" under "Analog device options," but that has nothing to do with capturing digitally.

2) Yes.

3) Vegas.
Click to expand...

Vegas? Well, I have just upgraded to the full version from the light version and have not explored the text section in full version yet, but I do know that in my light version the text never looked good. Maybe I was doing something wrong? Looks like I need some pointers from you! Your titles rocked!!

Do you have more video tutorials available for me to watch :smile: ?
 
David, I have another quesiton for you:

I have some stock footage filmed earlier this year with cannon GL2 camera at 30p. then I upgraded to DVX100B and now filming at 24p. I still want to use some of the footage from cannon because it cannot be filmed again.

What procedure shoud I follow when using 24p and 30p mixed?

1. I understand capture just as is, it doens't matter.

2. I assume time line should still be in 24p? or will it then not work with the 30p footage?

3. what to render as, I assume still 24p?

4. where did I put my excedrin bottle?? HAHA! My poor head is about to explode, I have been cramming so much technical information in it for the last week.... Boy oh boy...
 
To edit 24p and 30p together, edit in 60i and render in 60i. 24p and 30p do not convert to each other well at all, but they both render to 60i OK --though 24p will show interlace artifacts on a progressive screen.
 
David Jimerson said:
To edit 24p and 30p together, edit in 60i and render in 60i. 24p and 30p do not convert to each other well at all, but they both render to 60i OK --though 24p will show interlace artifacts on a progressive screen.
Click to expand...

Well here is the problem though: I am making a full feature film. the 30p footage will only be occasional in a few scenes (maybe account for only 2% of the whole film), so does that mean I would have to edit the whole film in 60i and render in 60i and then have the whole film have artifacts when people watch it on their TV set?

How can I work around above problem?

My target is DVD release/sales only.

Please advise...
 
You'll get ghosting and severe choppiness in any 30p footage if you try to render it as 24p -- unless you only use it for 80% slo-mo.

The artifacting will only be apparent on progressive sources (HDTVs) if played from a progressive-scan DVD player.
 
David Jimerson said:
You'll get ghosting and severe choppiness in any 30p footage if you try to render it as 24p -- unless you only use it for 80% slo-mo.

The artifacting will only be apparent on progressive sources (HDTVs) if played from a progressive-scan DVD player.
Click to expand...

david, I am not sure I completely understood the above. Can you elaborate just a bit? thank you so much...
 
Good advice from the moderator. On the aesthetic front, don't cut as much. It's disconcerting to the viewer and does nothing to further the narrative.
 
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