Using A Gun In A Movie

MagnumDB

MagnumDB

Active member
My director is beginning work on a movie that involves multiple versions of a guy killing himself via a gun.

Has anyone had experience working with guns in movies?

We went to a firing range to practice with an actual gun with ammo, so the actor could practice and look like a natural. He's never used a gun before.

The director wanted to use a REAL gun with blanks, but we do not know how to shoot such a scene.

The character holds the gun to the bottom of the jaw (which the neck connects to). And the director WANTS to see the gun go off in that position.

Clearly, the actor CAN NOT actually shoot the gun, even with blanks. That WILL cause injury and possibly death. And the firing range trainers taught us even with an empty gun, real or fake, you must always point it towards a safe area where no one is.

Sooooo... what can be done? Any stylistic choices perhaps? Or ways to maybe compress the frame so the gun isn't REALLY against his chin but from a side view it appears that way?

I wanted to get some money for a fake head, molded into the last expression the actor will make before pulling the trigger, and load that with squibs, but I don't know if such an effect is in the budget.

LONG POST, I KNOW! SORRY! And thanks in advance!
 
(the director seems to be either 12 years old, or insane...or both)

Not sure if you are the producer or prop master on this production, but if I were you, I'd be extremely adamant not to use ANY type of guns that fire ANYTHING when the gun is inches away from an actor or pointing at a person. Guns in a movie are extremely dangerous (google Brandon Lee).

I'd suggest a prop gun (with the barrel plugged up & with no ammo of ANY kind); have the actor pull the trigger (after the gun is checked SEVERAL TIMES immediately before the take), and fake the muzzle blast in post.
 
Professional Blank guns have the end of the tip solid with vent holes all the way around. It makes a more impressive muzzle flash that,while being unrealistic, shows up for the camera and won't kill your actor.
 
Putting a loaded blank firing gun pointing at one's jaw and pulling the trigger would likely leave one with some ear/hearing damage, and singeing of the neck's skin tissue.

Not so good advice, really.
 
Haha... "vidled" - you know the word "insane" crossed my mind. Believe me. The gun being the most important aspect of the movie happened to be the least researched. *slaps forehead*

Rest assure, that as soon as both the actor and I were fully briefed on what the director wanted, we both said NO. That is NOT happening.

I think you are right-on about doing the muzzle blast in post. We know about Brandon Lee - and that name certainly came up.

And "Arson" I never knew that about professional blank guns. I'll look into that as well as an option. But I think I still may be worried, and the actor may be as well. And "vildled" seems to confirm that isn't such a hot idea either.

How DO Hollywood movies go about this? Doing the flash in post?

I remember seeing a Peter Jackson thing where he said he would take the actual fil strip, and using a pin he'd poke holes in the film right where the blast from the gun would happen... when he projected it for people, the holes would of course have the projectors light shining through, so while the film moved quickly through the projector, it looked like blasts.


But hey, thanks for the tips!
 
I'd suggest using a gas-blowback airsoft gun (also unloaded!) so that you get the slide action and recoil. Add the cartridge ejection and flash in post. Or... go watch some movies from before you could just "do it in post" and see what their creative solutions to this problem were!

"Shoot around it" is never something directors like to accept, but it can lead to some unexpectedly wonderful solutions.
 
Maybe the prop gun can be a revolver (I believe there are airsoft revolvers), that way you don't even have to see recoil or the expended shell casing. You can just add a sound effect and muzzle flash in post. Just a thought.
 
Billy Pilgrim said:
Maybe the prop gun can be a revolver (I believe there are airsoft revolvers), that way you don't even have to see recoil or the expended shell casing. You can just add a sound effect and muzzle flash in post. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Air guns work well - Just make sure (repeatedly!) that they're empty. If the actor is firing the gun into himself, I'd leave the CO2 out of the gun - nothing is actually fired.

I'll second the revolver - no gas blowback to fake, just the hammer falling. Adding muzzle flash in post isn't hard to do, but can take some work to get just right.
 
In Full Metal Jacket, Kubrick used a really cool trick you might want to try.

When Pyle sits down on the toilet and blows his brains out, he rigged everything to go but didn't have anything in the chamber. He just had the effects go off and Vincent D'Onofrio jerked his head back. In post he pulled out a couple of frames to accentuate the violence of the action. Nobody notices that we don't see a muzzle flash or smoke... we're too busy watching the wall get painted red.

Try that one. The timing doesn't even have to be right on the effects blast and the head jerk.

And, like they said above, use an empty soft air gun. They use them a lot in Hollywood.
 
sounds like a train wreck about to happen using a real gun and firing it while pressed up against the guy's jaw.

seems like you should be able to have him use some of the above suggestions or here's something that may work. lock the camera down and have the actors pause at the point just before he shoots the gun, let the actor move out the way, shoot the gun (blank), then have the actor get back in position and act out his reaction, then overlay the footage in post so it looks like they were in the same scene together. that's if it HAD to use a real gun.
 
MagnumDB said:
My director is beginning work on a movie that involves multiple versions of a guy killing himself via a gun.

Has anyone had experience working with guns in movies?

We went to a firing range to practice with an actual gun with ammo, so the actor could practice and look like a natural. He's never used a gun before.

The director wanted to use a REAL gun with blanks, but we do not know how to shoot such a scene.

The character holds the gun to the bottom of the jaw (which the neck connects to). And the director WANTS to see the gun go off in that position.

Clearly, the actor CAN NOT actually shoot the gun, even with blanks. That WILL cause injury and possibly death. And the firing range trainers taught us even with an empty gun, real or fake, you must always point it towards a safe area where no one is.

Sooooo... what can be done? Any stylistic choices perhaps? Or ways to maybe compress the frame so the gun isn't REALLY against his chin but from a side view it appears that way?

I wanted to get some money for a fake head, molded into the last expression the actor will make before pulling the trigger, and load that with squibs, but I don't know if such an effect is in the budget.

LONG POST, I KNOW! SORRY! And thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

your director should check out some movies with that type of scene and freeze frame it. you could easily pull this off without showing the brains exploding from the guys head or it being in too much detail.
 
I really think a muzzle flash in post is the way to go. A lot of studio and indie films are even using CG now for blood instead of squibs.
 
I has this exact same situation on a short I directed. We used a real gun, and added muzzle flashes and squib mess in post. The gun was supplied by a law enforcement trainer, and he had the firing pen removed from the gun so that even if it had been loaded it could not fire.

This was before airsoft was so prevalent. I f I did it again I would do it with an airsoft or prop gun and add the flashes in post.
 
Blanks can still kill you, thats absurd to use them and a real gun on a movie. A famous actor died because of this, Dont recall off the top of my head who it was, but his head wasnt very solid after that incident.
There is still lots of pressure when you fire a blank and can cause some nasty stuff when pressed against a persons body/head etc..
Blanks are used for gun fights when nessessary.
Please research this before you guys get someone killed.
 
I was at this place in my hometown which was this big western-themed restaurant stop where they had this little ghost town out back. They would do all kinds of events and have cowboy duels acted out and stuff. Every time they did these re-enactments, the actors would all come out and explain to the audience that they needed to stay back because of the blanks they were using. The person explaining would fire a blank through a piece of paper and a hat at close range, demonstrating that the blanks can be just as dangerous as real bullets if you're too close to them.

So, yeah, when it comes to guns, don't be stupid.

Another option is a toy gun I found at a KBToy Store that actually recoils. The recoil is backwards, the barrel goes forward instead of backwards, but it moves so fast you can't really tell. It's usually labled as the "9mm Peacekeeper" and it is painted in a camouflage green and brown. Use some pliers or a Dremel, if it's on there really good, to take off the orange cap on the end, spray paint it black, and you have a 100% safe, real looking gun. It's also about $9.99 so buy a bunch of them.
 
funny, all this discussion about gunplay and the original poster's name is "Magnum" ....haha.

tell the director to use nerve gas on the next film. it's cheaper. :happy:
 
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