film school necessary?

snowleopard said:
I would not say film school is necessary if you want to understand what you are doing. If you can get work as a PA, then grip, you'll learn a lot working for key grips, gaffers, bb's DP's, etc. I'd say not just the theory, but the reasoning behind it. I'd also say that by shooting, through deductive reasoning, you can gain an understanding of what you are doing. You may, or may not understand the terminology of working on a pro set, but you can certainly learn to understand what you are doing.
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My fault for not being clear. I meant the how and why of storytelling. I said later that if someone wants to be employed in one of the crafts (such as grip, makeup, gaffing, etc) then film school is obviously not a necessity. In fact, I don't think I know anyone who's talented in those areas who actually went to film school.

What I meant was that all the on-set experience in the world ain't gonna teach you how to direct a story, and I stand by that. Only through study, philosophy, teachers, exploring the foundations and hows and whys of stories... those have to be learned. Nobody's born with that, and nobody's gonna pick that up by working as a PA or grip on a set. Understanding character and motivation -- you don't learn that by being a 2nd A.D., you learn that by studying people and sociology and psychology and philosophy. Understanding the language and syntax of film -- you don't learn that by working on a set, you learn that by watching the great films and reading or participating in commentaries with those who've spent a lifetime studying these things and are now ready to impart their combined decades of wisdom to you, the student. And on and on.

Directing music videos? Okay, you can learn that by watching MTV. Directing movies? You can't learn that by watching movies.
 
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And I'm not saying someone has to go to a prestigious film school, spend $100,000 in tuition, and graduate with a degree. That no more qualifies someone to direct a feature film than gripping on a set does. It CAN, if the student attends a great school and is absolutely committed to getting everything they can out of what the school offers and takes full advantage of every opportunity afforded them. But on the other hand, if someone thinks that emerging from NYU with an MFA means I'm going to automatically hire them as a director, um, think again.

So I'm not saying that attending a formal film school is the only way to learn how to direct. But I am saying that an extensive education *is* necessary, and you have to show an intense commitment to learning the art, craft, and science of filmmaking, and study in depth. That can be done at a good film school, it would be a waste of time and money in a bad film school, and it can be done without film school if one has the discipline and the budget for the bookstore and Netflix, and the drive to follow through.
 
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Film school can't hurt, it can only help.
Help with theory, skills and connections - not a bad investment.
Film school has been good for me.

It seems that those arguing that film school is not necessary are the same people who have not attended. (for the most part)

It's a little bit like the majority of people who espouse the virtues of video over film have never shot on film.

Experience will change your perspective.
 
If your choices are either go to film school or don't go to school at all....
My 2 cents, go to film school.

There is alot to be gained from the university experience other than what is taught in class.
 
Barry_Green;1057353What I meant was that all the on-set experience in the world ain't gonna teach you how to direct a story said:
I completely agree with that. I completely agree with the rest of your posts there Barry about how living a life, and studying life (philosophy, sociology, etc) is what it takes more than working on sets, more than film school.

I also agree that if you have the choice to go or not go, and time and money aren't huge issues, I would definitely go to film school. It can't hurt. Depending on the school you'll likely make some really good connections, and hopefully get to use a lot of the gear. And those are two great reasons for going. More so than sitting in lectures on analyzing films by Goddard and Bergman, etc.
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lairhair said:
Im starting to wonder if focusing so much on grades to get into nyu is a waste of time when I could be geting more involved in film. So is film school necessary?
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Get good grades and go to university anyways, doesn't have to be for film. I know a lot of people that went on to do their masters at AFI, NYU, and UCLA (don't personally know anyone from any of the other places but I'm sure the same applies) for their masters but their BAs weren't in anything film related. They had degrees in English Lit and stuff. If you decide to later you can get an MFA in film, and it doesn't require a film BA.

What's also great is if you're taking another degree you can fast track it which is hard to do when your taking film because of obivous reasons, but with other degrees they offer courses all year around basically and if you really want to you can graduate from a 4yr program in 2.5-3 yrs if you take extra courses and courses during the summer.

Also other programs(depending on what it is) can leave you plenty of time to work on and learn film stuff outside and inside schools, with any film societies and stuff that might exist. As well as just making your own shorts with people you know or meet, like plenty of people here do.

That way you have a full BA early, have tons of film knowledge and experience, and can choose to do a graduate film program down the road if you see fit.

You're young enough to have the best of both worlds.
 
Lucus is a prime example of networking through school. I believe his senior thesis project was short that was like THX...which then was noticed...and his career launched from there.

If you go all the way thru school, and go in master programs at places like AFI, NYU or UCLA...you diden't get there by your grades alone. You have some true talents, and if you are not a social idiot, you realize to latch on to anyone else in the program. Alot of AFI students have already been working in the industry prior, but want to fine tune there talent to a even great extent.

side note: Spielburg turned Schindler's List in for his senior thesis project at cal state longbeach. haha
 
As a film school professor I have to say education is never as expensive as ignorance. You will have to invest in education some how. Wether it is sitting in a library and reading every book on the subject, the school of hard knocks or a structured education you will invest somehow. The beauty of a good film school is the cirriculum is structured to get you the most knowledge and skills in the shortest period of time.

I would add however choose your school wisely. Many schools that advertise themselves as "Film schools" are nothing more then theroy. The professors are from the academic world and probably never been on a film set. These schools will make you good film critics, so if you want Siskel and Eberts job go there.

Otherwise look for schools with working professional that teach actual production.
My school is Oklahoma City Copmmunity College, we teach prodcuction. The staff includes an oscar winning producer, his credits include the Godfathers, Apocolypse Now, the Outsiders and many more. I am the least credited member of the faculty, and I learn from the others every day. You will get your money's worth at a school like ours.
 
sitting in class tonight in my film business class my professor was talking about contracts and such and one of the big things I'm getting out of my program is the business of film...in simple, "how not to get f*****" or atleast, know that your contract is talking about. I'm sure there books that can teach that, but with a good professor, they can answer your questions on topics related to what your learning about.
 
Is film school necessary? No. Especially "big name" expensive schools.
Will having a big name film school on your resumé get you a job? No.
Going to film school, and this is true of many things, is only as beneficial as you make it. If you just go to class you aren't doing enough. Utilize the schools contacts to get PA gigs, internships, work study opportunities etc., all while you are still a student 'cause real world experience will open more doors for you than getting straight A's in your theory classes. There are thousands of people a year graduating from film schools across the country and wanting to break into the industry. What sets you apart from everyone else w/the same degree you have?

I didn't got to a "film school" but I did major in Radio/TV Production at a small state school (Ball State Univ) and I utilized the opportunities my school offered to the fullest. Outside of class work I probably averaged 25-30hrs a week working on extracurricular projects and because of that I was always one of the first students the faculty looked at when their contacts were looking for day hires. So when I graduated I already had a handful of "real" jobs on my resumé.

I have friends that have undergrad and graduate degrees from big schools like USC and FSU and friends that came from small schools like me and in LA we all started at the bottom of the food chain. Big markets are the great equalizer. Everybody starts out as a runner, PA, assistant, etc.,. Are they exceptions? Of course. There are also people that win the lottery but that doesn't mean you should go dump a ton of money on PowerBall. :)

I think anyone can benefit from higher education (for reasons like Barry mentioned), but don't stress out thinking you have to get into school X otherwise your career won't go anywhere. That's just not how things work in our industry. Not that I'm a huge fan, but where did Rodriguez go to school again?:happy:


-A

EDIT: Oh, and if you do go to a big school don't think you know everything just 'cause you get a diploma. Nothing irritates people more than a know-it-all fresh outta film school.
 
I spend a good portion of time looking for tutorials and the like, including getting Barry's book. If I had had the opportunity to attend film school, I might have done it, but it is an individual choice. There is a site that I came across and found it helpful. http://www.filmschoolonline.com/.
 
Hollywood is one of the last bastions of apprenticeship. It's a place you can learn from a master, and then go on to become one. Credentials have never been and probably never will be necessary.

A degree from Harvard will get you a $100K per year job right out of school. A degree from the Peter Stark program at USC will get you a job as a PA. Hollywood is simply not a respecter of academia.

I have a friend who was at a crossroads in life. He always wanted to direct, so he finally decided to move to Florida and attend Full Sail, a pretty good film school - against my advice.

I told him to get a job as a PA, to learn ad much as he could. To actually work in the industry, learn by watching, and actually get paid. He is 26 - he can afford tolive on next to nothing.

Let's see what sort of opportunities he has when he graduates in four years.

As for me, I'll go to Film school just as soon as Tarantino, Rodriguez, Soderbergh and Linklater go.

If they are at a disadvantage in their careers because they've been denied some special, secret knowledge administered by rite deep in the halls of a film school, I am not aware of it.
 
People that go to the big schools for film, graduate, and then start working at the bottom of the food chain never made sense to me. I think what motivates me the most is working on set while in school, and learning more and more.

I once worked on a music video, and I was a basic PA, there was another guy there who was also a PA but had just graduated from USC... ofcourse I didn't say it, but its like...come on! you've gone to school that whole time and you're working as a pa!!

I'm going to school to learn theory. I am working to gain experience and contacts. I am doing both so when I graduate school, and I can start actually working, not getting coffee.
 
taormina said:
Hollywood is one of the last bastions of apprenticeship. It's a place you can learn from a master, and then go on to become one. Credentials have never been and probably never will be necessary.
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I know quite s few people who have gone to Hollywood and are working there. I'm yet to get an email from any of them saying "Hey the masters are teaching me well here" On set there are many things you will learn, but the set is not a learning environment. If it is the only avenue for a career for you than go for it, if you have the opportunity to go to school that will provide instruction on things that are not allotted time for on the set than why wouldn't you.


taormina said:
A degree from Harvard will get you a $100K per year job right out of school. A degree from the Peter Stark program at USC will get you a job as a PA. Hollywood is simply not a respecter of academia.
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Very true, as you have to prove yourself. Producers as well as everyone else in this business knows that knowledge is just a part of what you need to succeed. However the PA from film school is going to have that knowledge and understanding of what is going on, and probably be more efficient than someone off of the street.

taormina said:
I have a friend who was at a crossroads in life. He always wanted to direct, so he finally decided to move to Florida and attend Full Sail, a pretty good film school - against my advice.

I told him to get a job as a PA, to learn ad much as he could. To actually work in the industry, learn by watching, and actually get paid. He is 26 - he can afford tolive on next to nothing.
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Today I shot a training video for a restaurant chain, I had two grips with me both students of mine. The producer had scheduled an 8 hr shoot, because they were all motion shots and fairly complicated. When we we're wrapping after 3 hours he commented that he had never seen a shoot go so efficiently and professionally and get such great looking footage. The difference between trained professionals is obvious.

taormina said:
Let's see what sort of opportunities he has when he graduates in four years.

As for me, I'll go to Film school just as soon as Tarantino, Rodriguez, Soderbergh and Linklater go.

If they are at a disadvantage in their careers because they've been denied some special, secret knowledge administered by rite deep in the halls of a film school, I am not aware of it.
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You named four that have made it, what about all the others that didn't? Kind of hard to mention them since you'll never know their names. That doesn't mean that going to a film school will make you a film maker. I'd say about 10% of my students have what it takes to make it in this industry, and it is usually apparent who will and who won't. Film school does not dispense secret knowledge or rites, it is simply a place where the knowledge is organized in a manner to learn the most in the shortest amount of time. BTW Tarantino and Rodriguez didn't make it through the Hollywood machinery, instead they made it through independent means. I don't know Soderbergh or Linklaters careers enough to know how they came to prominence.

Is film school a necessity, no but you'll have to learn somewhere. You just don't wake up one morning a great film maker and you especially don't wake up with a head full of technical knowledge required to be something like a DP. So if you have the opportunity take advantage of it, it sure won't hurt.
 
I agree with Barry in that you can learn how to be a grip by working on a set, but if you want to know how to make a movie, you should be taught by someone who has done it before. I've found that working on set is a great way of being a lifetime grip. You learn your way around a C-stand, you learn how to put up a light, you learn some cool names for tools of the trade, but you don't learn how to tell a story through film.

The main thing that film school does is give you a safe environment to screw up. Hollywood is a very unforgiving business. It's also very competitive. If you screw up and word gets out, it's really hard to get your name back to good. Film school allows you to learn in a safe environment, ask questions without being taunted, and learn by doing but not worrying about messing up. On a real set, you're on someone elses money and time. So if you need to learn something or don't know how to do something, they don't really want to teach you on their dime. Film school allows you to learn at your own pace on your own money.

Also, depending on where you go, you get to make things with people around you that are passionate like you are. You're not making movies with friends in the backyard anymore. You're making YOUR movie with actual lights, better cameras, and sometimes, great help.

I love film school. I've directed around 4-5 short films in the 11 weeks that I've been in and I've already met with sccessful producers about funding my first feature films and I'm already planning to direct two films right out of school (if not before I graduate). A lot of that has come about because I live in Hollywood and I've met alumni from my school that like my work and share a common interest with me. They are already working and doing well for themselves and they want to help me up onto the wagon.

I agree, film school is not for everyone, but if you're like me and have tons of questions about filmmaking, want to be the best you can be, and do it as much as you can to show what you can do, I suggest you go to film school.
 
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Exactly -- but I'd add, make sure it's a "good" film school. Great professors and great equipment make for a good school, but stuff like this makes for the best type of school: "I've already met with sccessful producers about funding my first feature films and I'm already planning to direct two films right out of school (if not before I graduate). A lot of that has come about because I live in Hollywood and I've met alumni from my school that like my work and share a common interest with me. They are already working and doing well for themselves and they want to help me up onto the wagon."
 
Gopher_Greene said:
I know quite s few people who have gone to Hollywood and are working there. I'm yet to get an email from any of them saying "Hey the masters are teaching me well here"
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Hey man, last big shoot I worked on, I was watching how John Bailey, ASC likes to light. I'd say that's pretty good training. Now he wasn't sitting there saying "OK Adam, this is how we do it..." You just have to watch and learn, my friend. If you don't learn in that environment, you won't learn period.

Learn from a real, working pro. Not some burned out DP that decides the industry has been to hard on him and so he will go teach. Remember - Those who cannot do, teach.

Now you mentioned that that's four who made it - how about those that didn't? Reality check - many countless thousands who went to film school never made it either.
 
Just go to school and get a degree. It's college AND film school. Get a degree.

If you can't afford it, then find another way to reach your dreams, but if you can.... an education never hurt anybody. And it's fun as hell.

I can't believe this is a discussion.
 
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