Shot in 24p, some video good, other video has interlacing issues

B

butler360

Well-known member
OK, so for some background: I didn't shoot this at all. I didn't capture any of it. I didn't even do most of the editing. I took my external hard drive to the guy's house and copied the source files and Premiere project files to it, then re-linked everything on my computer.

It was shot on one of the Panasonic 24p cameras, I don't know which one, presumably in 24P. As far as 24P normal or advanced, I don't know. If I interpret the footage in AE, when I press the 24Pa button, for pulldown it says off. If I press the 3:2 button is says WWSSWS or whatever. So I'm guessing that it's 24P normal?

Anyways, the problem is that after going through the whole 24P workflow, I end up with a DVD that, in the outdoor scenes, looks great. Once we go inside, there are severe interlacing issues. Just take a look at the screencaps:

http://tommorowstechnologytoday.com/vlcsnap-3234543.png
http://tommorowstechnologytoday.com/vlcsnap-3235314.png

It looks pretty awful anytime there is much motion. When it is mostly still, it looks fine. Those caps are from VLC playing from a DVD folder on my computer. The interlacing is noticeable but not nearly as bad as on my portable DVD player. When I hook the portable DVD player up to my regular old tube TV, I don't see the interlacing, BUT... the framerate looks lower...? I checked the bitrate during those scenes and they are about 4mbps so no problem with that. One thing that comes to mind is that he changed something on the camera once we went inside, either accidentally or on purpose to compensate for the low lighting. I have never even touched one of these 24p cameras so I have no idea...

I'm pretty sure I got all the 24P stuff right because the menus & titles I made are perfect quality on the DVD when I play it on my computer. I exported all of the video from Premiere 1.5.1 as 24P m2v files and imported into Encore, then made a DVD folder on my computer and burned with Nero. In premiere when I click on the source files they both show 23.937 or whatever the proper framerate should be. The project settings are also panasonic 24p.

I've looked all over the internet and these forums and people seem to have similar problems but nothing quite the same. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
i am new to pp....but as far as i know some monitor will show interlace frame.......
 
I had a problem like this several months ago, It all came down to how its was encoded. I am away from my editor at the moment so i'm going off the top of my head, but before you export to dvd, use the adobe media encoder(this was the key), select the proper Progressive setting, render. Also, I had to render audio and video seperately, then put them back together in encore. from there i burned out the dvd in encore as Mpeg-dvd and it looked great.
hope this helps
 
BLahey said:
I had a problem like this several months ago, It all came down to how its was encoded. I am away from my editor at the moment so i'm going off the top of my head, but before you export to dvd, use the adobe media encoder(this was the key), select the proper Progressive setting, render. Also, I had to render audio and video seperately, then put them back together in encore. from there i burned out the dvd in encore as Mpeg-dvd and it looked great.
hope this helps
Click to expand...

Actually, that's exactly what I did. What's so confusing is that outdoor video looks perfect, indoor video has interlacing issues or weird frame rate depedning on if it's ont he computer, portable DVD, or TV. :huh:
 
whenever you have 24p material that is not properly showing the progressive frames, it is almost always an issue of proper pulldown. WWSSWS looks like 24PA. i think that PPRO 2.0 was the first to include preset projects for using 24P DV (specifically for the DVX100) where it will automatically pull down any 24p normal or advanced clips within that project. in 1.5 you can try right clicking any clip that does not display right in your PPRO project bin, and be sure that the "interpert footage" dialog actually knows tha the material is 24p, if its not, it should be set to it so that the clip might use the right pulldown and get rid of any interlaced frames and only show progressive. if your doing your pulldown seperately in AE, it looks like its likely 24PA you need to be using. from there it looks like your good here, but you just need to be sure that all of your rendering and output options are also set for 24 fps Progresssive, and you shouldnt end up with anything other than 24p showing unless your displaying it on a monitor or TV that is incapeable of displaying progressive images, or you are using a video signal that does not carry progressive video.
 
Yeah, in premiere under interpret it says "use frame rate from file: 24.976..."

I've been messing with the video and it seems to help if I de-interlace on that particular footage AND it doesn't seem to lose any sharpness... which worries me. The best option right now seems like Filed Interpolate under effects. It looks best that way. But it STILL seems like he framerate is off. The video seems like it pauses every couple of seconds, like during a pan it doesn't go as fast as it should. Is there some way to remedy that? I keep getting the feeling that the guy who shot this took it off of 24P during shooting, even though it says 24fps in premiere.

Also, I saw somehwere saying you could keep more quality by deinterlacing two copies of the video in sync on the timeline and then choosing reverse field dominance on one and putting the opacity to about 50% on the other. Is this a good option? I tried it and it looks OK... :undecided

Thanks for the help, by the way!
 
..way too much work. as long as they shot 24p, you should be able to use it just fine. try using the 24p DV preset project, and change only the settings you need to to customize it. it will remove the pulldown properly for you.
 
Well, I must not have explained this well, but I AM using the 24p preset in premiere. Some video works great and is certainly 24p footage and it plays that way. Other footage, from the same day, same tape, same FILE even, doesn't appear to be 24P.

So I think I'll give up and de-interlace...
 
This is a KNOWN issue, I posted about it several months back. Fixed in PP2 and 3 but I have all almost dumped Premiere altogether for FCP. Premiere 1.5X has a lot of trouble with 24P footage, in particular 24P 2:3 (or normal, not advanced 24PA). It will, in many cases, improperly rebuild the "C" frame. This will depend on when you started, stopped, etc. recording and where your in/out is in your timeline. There is NO fix or workaround. Premiere 1.5 is the ONLY DV editor on the planet, including Windows Movie Maker than cannot interpret 24P 2:3 footage properly, even in a 29.97 timeline.



ash =o)



Check out this thread on DVinfo:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=65190
 
I use PP1.5.1, and I run into this occasionally too. Whenever I do, I simply recapture the footage from tape. Make sure you start capturing only after the camera started rolling. In other words, if you start capturing and the camera reaches a point where it stopped and then started rolling again, the footage may get jittery.
Hope this helps!
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. So if I am reading correctly, updating to PP2 would solve this problem?

Or re-capturing, which is not an option because I am not in possesion of the tapes.
 
PPRO 2.0 , and CS3 works just fine as far as 24p is concerned, but PPRO1.5 does for the most part as well. i have to apologize for not thinking of this earlier, but one thing i just remembered that learned back in 1.5 that is the utmost importance was that you NEED to use scene detect when capturing in order to break every seperate shot into a different clip. otherwise what it does is look at the cadance freom the beginning of the first shot, and use the correct pulldown for it and apply it to the entire clip. but each shot/take starts the cadance over again, and it may not necessarily line up with the pulldown that is being used from the beginning clip in the frame order. so if your first shot (is very short..) and goes 2:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:2 and then you stop on that frame.. and then start recording again. it will start over with 2:3:3:2:3:3:2... ect. but what this does is make your pulldown off if both shots are captured as one clip, because now youve got a section where you ended on a 2, and then the next frame is also a 2, so it goes something like 2:3:3:2:2:3:3:2 ... so the shot after the first shot isnt going to be pulled down properly since PPRO 1.5 uses the same pulldown for the entire captured clip based off of the first few frames. of course its likely going to start working again when it happens to line up again when you stopped one shot and started another that falls into place with the cadance from the first shot. thats why it will seem to be hit and miss for which shots are working and which are not. i recall that once i learned to use scene detect when capturing 24p. it completely eliminated any issues with incorrect pulldown. I shot about 15-20 tapes worth of 24PA and it all pulled down beautifully using scene detect in PPRO 1.5. but again this was using 24PA.. i rarely shot 24pN , but when i did it played fine on a 29.976 timeline. im not really sure what ASh G is talking about because both 24PN and 24PA are 29.976 material until you perform a pulldown.. which isnt done in a 29.976 project at all. but everybody has some sort of unique experience i guess, so anything is possible, but I would call it system issue far before i would call it a software issue for anyone actually having trouble playing 29.976 DV in a 29.976 DV timeline.
 
Hmmm, that info gives me an idea... Since each tape is captured to one file, I could possibly export the footage that looks bad to a new AVI file, a lossless process (I think), and then re-import that new file to see if it detects it correctly after that and then integrate that into the project. Right?

Well I'll probably give it a shot tomorrow. I'd hate to de-interlace half of the footage we shot with a DVX100!

Thanks again for the great replies.
 
what you should do is create a 29.976 project to export each shot as a seperate file from using the same codec (..should be lossless as long as you dont add anything and uncheck the recompress box in the export options) from so that its not trying to do pulldown or anything. that way youll just get the complete file as is is off camera.. perhaps starting and ending on a different frame, but the pulldown should work fine. then reimport those shots back into your 24p project. or just export each full file out to tape from a 29.976 project using same codec and all and re-import using scene detect. that way youll just create your own tapes to recapture.
 
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You guys are exactly right. I re-imported some cut up pieces of the original video, split using VirtualDub, and now it works perfectly and Premiere does the right pulldown! Phew.

And in case anyone finds this thread later, here's how I am fixing it:
Instead of doing all of that stuff with new projects and putting it back out to tape, I'm using VirtualDub and creating new AVI files from the existing ones. Select your in and out on the timeline and then make sure you have selected Video-->Direct Stream Copy and Audio-->Direct Stream copy then export the new file. Re-import this and now it's interpreted correctly as 24P.

Thanks for your help everyone!
 
no prob. i remember going nuts trying to figure out the same thing once upon a time, only i had the tapes to re-import at the time. again, sorry i didnt recall that sooner.
 
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