Arrir 3- 35mm coming into FCP; what are the questions?

murraymile

murraymile

Active member
alright, so I'm in a situation where I'm not sure if I didn't ask enough questiosn to the Director of Photography. As a editor, I made sure (On Set) that I got all my cover/insert shots from the director as well fromt he DP (Camera Op also). We shot this in Orlando, FL and their going back to L.A. to do the transfer. The DP told me that he will be leaving it as a beta 8 bit uncompress.

I'm using a MAC Book Pro to edit on with a externor harddrive for the store beta. What should I know when I'm editing a 35mm film formate? What questions should I be asking when it comes to transfering and importing into FCP?

Thanks, hope to here from you guys.

Murray
 
Will the audio be synced with the picture at the time of telecine? Will the lab provide you with a FLEX file or ALE (very important to get)? What will the FINAL format be? Film negative cut? Digibeta onlined? Online a HD master? Knowing how you are finished is pretty important.

How will this be injested into your system? Because "beta 8-bit uncompressed" isn't a codec. 8-bit uncompressed in, but BETA is a tape format. So, will you be working with this footage in an UNCOMPRESSED format? Then you'd better get an eSATA raid to handle that...and depending on the amount of footage...a big raid.
 
As long as the Betacam (which is overkill for a SD down-convert I think) has the keycode burn then you can do the necessary match back and cut later on, so not much you should have to worry about. Though really you all should have a post super/co-ordinator overseeing all of this. That is essentially what they are there for.

If you have FCP 6 (or can get it), I'd suggest doing a transfer to HDCam, getting that digitized in at 24, and then you can even cut at a native 24 timeline. You could use like the ProRes 422 codec to help preserve a lot of quality but keep the file sizes down (and thus potentially the demand on your laptop). This is assuming you want to finish back on film.

cheers.
 
Ok. Some of this that you guys are throwing at me here is knew. Let me talk to the DP and use the questions that "Shane Ross" told me. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for helping out so far. It means alot. I just want to make sure the director/producer know that there wont be any problems.

Oh, Shane Ross, I member him telling me that he was going to do something that is "Online" or something. these are the Key words that he told me, because he was in a hurry; "8 bit" "uncompress" "online" "beta". thats it. I'll find our more.

I'm using Final Cut Studio 2.

Murray

Murray
 
The "Online" is taking your edit (the story) and then dealing with all the finishing touches (color correction, titling, etc.). In the case of an offline/online workflow, the online is done in a better color space/codec then the offline (story) edit. So it could be that you will be working in an offline codec and then they'll redigitize to uncompressed for the color correction and output to tape (which then sounds like it won't finish on film). Or perhaps to save themselves time they'll have you cut it in the uncompressed timeline so once picture is locked they can just take your timeline/footage as is and get to work (which is fine, just puts a bigger demand on the system you'll be using).

cheers.
 
OK....you are editing something that is shot on film, and you don't know the basics like what Beta is? What an ONLINE is?

This worries me.

Editing something that was shot on film, telecined to tape or as data, and matching back to the negative is a tricky thing...this isn't easy. You really need to know your stuff. This isn't like cutting something shot on DV. This is complicated stuff. If you don't have a grasp of the basics, how can you be expected to cut this properly? See that you dot all the "i"s and cross all the "t"s?

You need to find someone who knows film to work with you on this....an Assistant at least. And please do no mention my name to the DP.
 
they'll have a assistant supervisor helping out with the edit. but, I would like to learn some of the basics. I edited on Avid Express with the whole suit. I'm just a editor. I know how to cut a story. It's learning the basic importing and exporting of file's, beta, and etc. I just like to know that you guys can guide me of what kind questions I should ask after this project so I'm ready.

Thanks for the respones.

Murray
 
I'd make sure you are up front in your abilities... see if there is anyone on hand that will tech the machines - maybe they'll know what's up. Or post a call for help... A few of us do consult work ($$$$) over the phone if you run into any snags.

However - did I miss the final output version here? Are you going back to FILM? Straight to DVD or broadcast?

Remember - film flys by at 24fps... broadcast at 30.

IF -- IF IF IF they are asking you to do an offline edit of the beta tapes to later transfer onto film well -- you could very well be in a heap of trouble.

If all they want is the final product cut from the beta captures then you should be ok.

That would be a KEY question to ask.

Also - where are you working this edit? At a production facility? Are they providing the decks for Beta transfer to hard drive?

What ratio was this shot in... what ratio is the beta in... what aspect ratio do they want the final in?

When you finally get it onto a hard drive... buy another one and copy the files to that... then take the first one and drive for about 100 miles and leave it in a bus station locker just in case there's an earthquake - or worse... rolling blackout and you brick your drive!!

My thoughts.

CaptM
 
Last edited:
Hey Shane Ross, I went to your website and found this quote.
This is one reason to have an editor that is NOT the director...and a good reason an editor should NEVER go to the set. Because a director knows what was involved in getting that shot...how much money and manpower was added, they might feel compelled to keep the scene. But an editor comes in with a fresh eye...

I really though about this...Because, for music videos (as editor) I like to be on set to see whats coming to post. Also, I get a chance to get close to the director and take notes. Which that being said, sometimes the director (because sometimes he/she gets to involed with the talent) would ask me can we work with this. Then I can give him a straight up answer on set. There for, he can get all his cover shots, inserts and B-roll. Anyways, I talk to a few professional editors, and they tell me that they are sometimes on set for feature-films and what not. Well, I see myself as a editor on set for commercials and music video. I dont believe that I mostly wouldn't be on set for Short films or Features.

I would like to know what you think about being on set from your point of view for features or what not.

thanks.



Quote from: CaptainMench
did I miss the final output version here? Are you going back to FILM? Straight to DVD or broadcast?
It's going back out to Broadcast.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
where are you working this edit? At a production facility? Are they providing the decks for Beta transfer to hard drive?

I'm working in a production home with a Final Cut Studio 2 on a Mac Pro Duel processor. Yes, they will be providing a deck and beta tranfser to harddrive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hat ratio was this shot in... what ratio is the beta in... what aspect ratio do they want the final in?

It was shot in 4:3 and they want it to be exported out to 4:3

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


So far, thats what I know. I'm waiting for more information.
 
My question here is this is being done on a Mac Pro with what capture card ?
how are you connecting the deck , whose doing the Color Correction , audio mix down and how are you going to be previwing this .
how are you previewing this for accurate pic ref .
this is not to be harsh but sounds very over your head as far as a project goes.
its ok to want to learn all of this but to take it on as an editor who should know all these steps way ahead of time is kinda asking for alot of unhappy people.
 
murray,

For on set vs not on set, I think that's a personal preference kind of thing. Walter Murch is well known for never wanting to be on set. He doesn't want to be able to see "outside the frame" as it were. That way when he looks at a shot he has no attachment to the manner in which it was shot (may an actor was hurt doing a take, but its an okay take so there's a demand by the actor/director to use it, even when perhaps another take is actually better, just an example). But then someone like Anne Coates very much likes to go to set and meet the actors. She feels it does not effect her ability to still be an effective story teller. So its just a personal taste thing in the end, and perhaps knowing yourself. Everyone is different, so how well do you think you can disassociate yourself with what happens on set as any given take is filmed?

As for "editing on set" and then talking to the director about getting pickups or what not, well that's kind of the sign of a good director/crew versus a bad director and crew. That really should not be your job on set, someone else should be responsible. And if there is concern over such being needed, then the line producer should be handling possible "reshoot" days in certain locations or buildings and you should be in the edit suite cutting and then calling the director/line producer to discuss the need for the additional shots. Anyway, that's just how I see it, as I too feel that an editor should not be on set and should provide a fresh set of eyes to the situation.

filmbot,

I don't think he has to worry about that stuff too much. They're not ever going back to film, and sounds his job is to be the offline (story) editor, so those other duties are not his responsibility. I agree to take on all those responsibilities if you don't already know is recipie for disaster, but he's just trying to learn for his own sake (as far as I can understand it all).

cheers.
 
Thanks for the respones guys. I understand that I need to know more about the importing of film and what not. I have the skill to tell a story when I edit. As for the tech. stuff, I'm willing to learn. So far you guys taugh me alot and by doing that, I search for answers on google and teachers (editors) that I go to school with. I hate on myself for not knowing this stuff. Trust me, I learned alot and I'm greatful to have this project on my hands. Oh, I'm not sure if I told you guys, but his is a Music Video.
I found out that they will be going through telecine then to Digitbeta which I'm going to my school lab. to covert the data. This is not going back out to film, but it will go out to boradcast. Other than that, I'll have the footage within the 9 days.

Thanks for helping.

Varicam Life:

To answer your question, I like to be on set for commercials and music videos because I love to get a taste of the director and how he works for his vision. Also, it's good networking skills and meeting knew people. As for Short Films and Features, I would (maybe) come on set here and there. I'm kind of a editor that likes to have fresh eyes.

Murray
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top