High-Res Monitoring Solution: Low Cost Semi-DIY project

K

Kholi

Section Moderator
DOUBLE POSTED IN HVX200 HARDWARE SECTION SO THAT THOSE WHO NEED HIGHER RES CAN FIND IT (XHA1 is example). MODS, DELETE IF THIS IS A PROBLEM! SORRY!.

UPDATE: July 20, 2007 -- Yup, it worked! And worked well!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1004277&postcount=46 -- See the Mini Lilliput Review there.

Xenarc Touchscreen test-run -- Not bad, the Lilliput is better: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1007758&postcount=117

Coming soon-- Dynamix 8" TFT LCD test run--
Okay. Let me start off by saying that I'm not the only one that is doing, is trying, has tried, has done this. I went hunting a few nights back because with the M2, I definitely NEED a solution to monitor my footage when I can't have the Gateway 24". I found out that someone else had success with this method, and then later found another one:

DVinfo thread I ran across:
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87334

Dennis Wood's Comprison:
http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewt...439a41 2f0ddd


Check Dennis Wood's Comparison for actual pictures comparing the Marshall to what I'm in the process of doing.

I have a strong feeling that another member on DVXuser has done this as well, but I've seen no mention of it.

Concept: Cobble together a few parts to make a worthy "hi-def" monitor. Something on par with the iKan.

Goal: To bring the cost of the complete working LCD down below 550.00 USD including shipping charges. This is without an arm or a case to lug it around in. But includes Batteries, converter, screen, and a solution to strap them together.

Results: To be posted here probably around this weekend, cause I've ordered the parts. Nose dive!

------------------------------------- The Parts List

-LCD-

Well you'll need one of these! And the most important things to look for in a screen are:

A) 800 x 480 resolution: The Marshall, the iKan, the ToteVision? THey all have the same resolution. After a good twenty hours of research, I learned that there are only like two to three possible LCD's that they're using. A Hitachi LCD or a Samsung are the most likely ones. So, the actual LCD won't really matter here. As long as you're hunting for an 800 x 480 resolution 16:9 (not 15:9) TFT LCD you're good.

B) Viewing Angle: These are listed in monitor specs. Mostly 65's are good, that's the important thing to note. The viewing angle marked U is usually lower from what I've seen.

C) VGA connection: Not S-Video, not RCA/Composite, but 15-Pin D-Sub VGA. This is important, because this connection will allow you the best resolution possible.

Through my research, I've managed to gather for you all screen manufacturers and some specific model numbers that should be exactly what's needed. :

Bests (in order I believe)

 LILLIPUT - 619GL-70NP -- Tight. Zak has two, Lucas bought one, I'm going for the 629GL. This one is prolly the winner!
XENARC Model #: 700Y / 700YV -- Update: I tried this one and it had a bit of a problem: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1008378&postcount=130
Dynamix 8" TouchScreen LCD (Ebay: DYNAMIX)
PYLE PLVG-7IR

Not sures:
iMobile (Can't find these anywhere)
http://www.xovision.com/stand_monitors.htm
http://www.digitax.com/prod_detail.p...08920f0f569972
http://telepeak.manufacturer.globals...149681/ALL.htm
http://www.provisiontvusa.com/products.htm
Hami - http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Hami&categ ory0=
Eonon - http://eonon.com/D275.htm
More Generic Ebay Seller - http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/tammy2918/
Metrik TFT LCD
Nitro TFT LCD

I ended up purchasing the LILLIPUT model 16:9 800 x 480 resolution LCD on Ebay. The manufacturer SAYS 15:9. I called the guy selling them and he says they are definitely 16:9 so we'll see.

I think you might want to stay away from ACCELE LCD's as well. I think MP3Car.com forum members rated this one a no no.

-SIGNAL CONVERTER-

This is important. You need one that can convert the HVX's signal to the RGB/VGA in port. Again, I found some through my research and here they are in order of readily available:

NEOYA X2VGA 2 - 70.00 Shipped
MAYFLASH - About 60.00 Shipped when in-stock at SewellDirect
vDIGI - About 60.00 Shipped I think -- UPDATE: Zak Forsman tried this with the Lilliput 619GL and it DID NOT WORK PROPERLY! -- http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1008373&postcount=129
All of these need external power to function right, which I am about to get to now.

-BATTERIES-

Gotta power the screen and the converter, right? A good 12v package should work for the screen with a 6v (can't remember, will clarify this soon) solution for the converter. I took the liberty of hunting down something that would work for all and came up with

TEKKEON MP series batteries. Mp3300, Mp3400, Mp3450. You can change the voltages and they come with a host of goodies and leather cases which will be good for mounting the batteries. Read up on them here: http://www.tekkeon.com/site/products-mypowerall.php

I purchased from an Ebay Vendor here in California who sells the Mp3300 for a mere 50.00 a pop! I think that's very nice for a sleek looking battery that you can change the output voltages on, nay?

-CABLES-

www.Monoprice.com (Thanks to Cynic821) Stocks 3ft VGA cables. It's the shortest length I could find. They also have VGA signal splitters as well as RGB signal splitters. I purchased one of each so maybe I can concoct something shorter for the screen.

-EXTRAS-

Velcro's our friend. I figured I'd get double sided Velcro tape and tape up the back of the monitor to attach the extra Converter. I already have the Veclro, will let you know how that works out.

-----------------------Costs

You should look for the best outlets possible to keep your costs down. Ebay was my friend. I ended up paying:

205.00 Shipped for the Lillput Monitor
70.00 Shipped for the Mayflash converter
150.00 for 3 x Mp3300 Brand new Rechargable Li-Ion batteries
----- 425 Total for the real hardware.

Extras like cables and such shouldn't come to more than 25.00 if you shop right.

So that brings me to about 450.00 for something that I am hoping will at least be on Par with the iKan monitoring solution just released.

If shopped right (And if the Lilliput works well) you could get this same setup from 400-500.00


CONS

I'm sure this is going to be heavier than the iKan by a few grams
An extra cable or two added to your setup
No arm included in the price of this. Though, which monitor comes with an arm.
Hackneyed, but I doubt anyone will really notice aside from us.


I have all of the parts I need to try this, simply waiting for them to arrive and I think everything will get here by Thursday/Friday so here's to hoping it works out!

Input is welcomed and encouraged!

Matty G and I will probably meet up later next week in LA and compare screens. Not expecting this to be as good as his Marshall, but a great trade off for price.
 
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Wow Kholi, what timing!

I broke my screen data cable like a twat yesterday, and now I'm scanning the forum for a solution, and this may be it. I have a DVX100b, however, so I'm not sure if my needs are different. Where do external monitors plug into a DVX? Is it the yellow RCA socket or S-video? Will I need a converter, like the HVX? I'd like to be able to use DVX/HVX batteries ideally - that would be the slickest solution I think. If they plugged in on the back of the monitor, that would be even cooler. I will research now!

Many thanks
Lucas
 
hey Kohli,

I have done such a monitor. to tell you the truth, It worked for what it was, but the problems are too much to be a viable solution for a work environment.

I just blew my second NEOYA X2VGA 2 converter with the tekkeon MP3400. I swore I'd never blow my second one after the first one, but when working on a tight deadline, you can't always help it. So my thing is caput. and for some reason I hadn't use it in a while and it wasn't working initally when I tried it. So if its not dependable, then its no good.

I'm meeting with Matty G tomorrow and thursday, maybe even friday, so if you are in LA and want to take a look at mine, I'd be happy to show you it.

The draw backs are the cheap car monitors, their angle of view is too small, so no good for a focus puller. only for the camera operator.

Second draw back is the NEOYA X2VGA 2. its not the best scaler, but it does a decent job.

Third, you will need to feed two components, the monitor, and the NEOYA X2VGA 2. so two batteries. I myself, got 2 Tekkeon MP3400. ( I like the damn things, but if you are still going this route, maybe color coating which one is set to what voltage will help. the NEOYA X2VGA 2 only takes 5 volts, the monitor will probably take 12. so if you mix them you will blow your neoya and another $70, plus 2 weeks for the new one to ship)
 
It sounds as though the problem here is with those batteries and the ability to fry components with them. Surely a dedicated-voltage battery would be a good solution to make the system reliable.

Question: What is a good camera mount solution?
 
well, not just that. My first Neoya worked fine with both 720p and 1080i. my second one didn't seem to work with the 1080i, which was ok with me since I usually shoot 720. Maybe I did something wrong when I was soldering everything the second time.

And the other thing is that you need 2 batteries. this one really sucks.

And then the car screens are really crappy.
 
siniarch said:
well, not just that. My first Neoya worked fine with both 720p and 1080i. my second one didn't seem to work with the 1080i, which was ok with me since I usually shoot 720. Maybe I did something wrong when I was soldering everything the second time.

And the other thing is that you need 2 batteries. this one really sucks.

And then the car screens are really crappy.
Click to expand...

Did you know that the LCD's in the car screens are the same as the iKan and Marshall? I'm willing to bet if you tear one or the other apart, they're the Hitachi LCDs. It's the internal processing that'll make the difference and I got a feeling your Accele monitor was the weakest link in your setup. Xenarc, Dynamix, and Lilliput are rated the highest from my few days of research. So, just like in every electronics market, there'll be different grades of quality between brands.

On viewing angle, the monitors that I have listed have the same Viewing Angle Rating as the iKan and Marshall monitors. I'm not exactly sure about the Accelle, though. One of those has a better viewing angle than both. It's at 80 on all sides. I think that's the Dynamix or the Provision.


I've also considered having to power two components, and lucky for me I found a cheap source for MP3300's. I ended up getting 3 instead of two. One to charge while the other two work and switch them out. Also, the MP3300's can drop down to 3v instead of the MP3400's 6v which I find very useful. I'll gaff off each one accordingly, no doubt. Batteries will be a nuisance for any monitor setup. This shouldn't be a worry of anyone's honestly.

Also, instead of the Neoya (because it's larger) I ended up getting a MAYFLASH instead. It's smaller and along side the vDigi, gamers rated it just as high in scaling and image processing. Neoya is the one that sorta lags behind, but, it's more available than the Mayflash and vDigi at this time. I got my Mayflash on Ebay brand new.

I, in fact, knew you were one of the DVXuser members that did this as I saw your X2VGA 2 strapped to the monitor. =P You should've told the rest of us so we could try it out too.



Lucas: You won't need a converter. In fact, you have it easy-- you can just plug in S-Video for highest quality out of DVX and go. No need for a converter. You'll just need an MP3300 battery to run it.
 
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Kholi - thanks for posting the breakdown all in one place in such an organized way.
Can't wait to hear your results.
:thumbsup:
 
No problem, Luis. I know the screen will be here today. I got the cables from Monoprice, lightning fast shipping! Now I wait on the Tekkeon batteries and the Mayflash which means I should have it all by Saturday and SUNDAY I have a shoot from 12 - 7:30 or so... which means I can test it out while shooting.

Again, I don't expect this to perform on par with the Marshall. At best, on par with the iKan at a healthy trade-off for price-to-quality.

I'm not about to spend 1500.00 on an 8" LCD that only does 480p. I spent the same on a 42" TV that does 1080p.

Me cheap.
 
To make benefit the nation of DVXuser, I'm going to try to test out another LCD: 8" 800 x 480p with a similar contrast ratio to that of the Marshall and all around similar specs.

So, if that works out, I'll be testing two and reporting on the differences along-side the Marshall if I can get Matty G to help out.

Anyone in Los Angeles got an iKan?
 
Recieved the Lilliput 619GL in BLACK instead of SILVER. Very solid IMO and the viewing angle is as described. I can nearly view it from completely sideways on both sides, and a decent viewing angle from the bottom.

Viewing from the top is the worst, but I can't imagine needing to look straight down from the top of the screen regardless.

Also plugged it into the Mac and ran 800 x 600 and it's great. Also, it accepts all resolutions which is good.

Has a lot of typical adjustment options, like RGB values, contrast AND backlight which is great.

Those are my initial thoughts. I think this Lilliput could very well be a winner.

Got the 3 MP3300 Batteries in today as well. THey're a LOT larger than I expected. LOL. I thought they were gonna be small but I'll make 'em work.
 
interesting... keep fiddling, I know Siniarch has been researching and developing for some time now too so he must have a ton of experience to share... I know tween the two of you you can pull this one off... but what's the latest on Siniarch's monitor? it's been a while since I asked him...

I would love to see a $600 something x 480 monitor even if it isn't the best viewing angle as long as the sucker is as bright as the HVX's LCD or brighter... then I know I can work with it somewhat even in the hot Vegas sun with 110F (just did that with the built in and my awesome Petrol shade)...


hummmm... this could be good.... Kholi, keep us informed... I really wnat to see what you come up with....
 
Thanks Kholi. This is very interesting and informative.

BTW, why in the heck aren't you a mod? I think you're total mod material.
 
Well, I got all the components in this week, and I got to tell ya, the monitor is sweet.
1024x768, and it should be brighter than the marshal if my calculations are correct.
I hope Matty_G brings his marshall so we can compare them tomorrow.

It has :
  • a flip function
  • 1024x768
  • take HD RGB analog
  • HDSDI with pass thru option of 1 or 2 inputs
  • VGA
  • S-video
  • Coaxial SDvideo
  • SD RGB analog
  • 8.4" screen
  • 500:1 contrast
  • 85 viewing angle all around
  • Antiglare Polarizing surface
  • 16,777,216 colors.
  • has monochrome function for Red / Green / and Blue (but I still haven't tried calibrating with the blue only setting)
  • Has the ability to zoom (though not 1:1 probably, but it does zoom a little)
I'm looking at it being cheaper than the marshall, but not by much. I believe its a better monitor though.
I'll let you know once I have more info on this.
 
Thanks Latin! You know I'm all about trying stuff out. The viewing angle of the first four monitors I put up are the same as the iKan and if not the same as the Marshall, very close. Just as well, while you mention the HOT VEGAS SUN... the monitors are rated up to 78c. So you CAN work out in the hot Vegas sun without an issue. Get a Hoodman though. lol. Go down further to see what the Lilliput offers as far as BACKLIGHT controls.

Aaron, I so couldn't handle being a mod. LoL. And I don't think the Mods actually think I'm mod material anyway. =P. But, that makes my tinkering feel appreciated so thanks man.

Siniarch-- What LCDs are you planning to put into your setups? Would the screen resolution be native 800 x 600 able to accept a 1024 x 768? I know the Hitachi screens and newer Samsung LCD's are capable of that. Although I think the newer Samsungs are capable of also accepting a 1600 x 1200 signal as well.

Your specs also have a higher contrast than the Marshall, will they include a setting to change the backlight amount as well as a higher brightness rating to begin with?


--- Small update on Lilliput Monitor ----

It's pretty darned nice running from a Macbook @ 1024 x 768. I got a chance to calibrate it and one thing that I noticed before I did so was that there were odd colors when you look at the sides, top or bottom. There's a setting called AUTO GAIN and as soon as you hit it, everything looks perfect from all sides except the bottom. Viewing from bottom has the worst viewing angle of all four sides.

Another very tasty tid-bit about this monitor is that it really DOES have a backlight setting function. And you don't have to go into the settings to do it. There are four backlight levels and each one significantly different from the one before itself. You just tap the LEFT key on the monitor and it changes it; me likes.

I hope to have received the MAYFLASH today. HOPE.

And still working on testing out a more expensive screen. Yet, even with that, the total cost is still under 550.00 for a complete setup.

I'd like to reiterate here: The objective is to find a monitoring solution on par with iKan, a healthy trade-off for the cash spent. It's not going to be the perfect solution, but it'll be easy on your pocket as long as you take your time searching for the components.
 
Would also like to add in here that those using non-HD cams (DVX specifically) can simply grab-and-go with the higher resolution LCD's. If I only had a DVX, I would use S-VIDEO out to this Lilliput, find a stand for it or even buy a noga-arm and things would be ready to go.

So that's another plus. And, I think they are totally acceptable for field use... well... as long as you get them in BLACK. =P
 
I am just wanting to see if this would be a viable option. I am using a VX2100 (non-HD) and just want a really crisp monitor for pulling focus with the 35mm adapter. Can I just grab a monitor such as a computer monitor (flat panel LCD) that has atleast 800X600 resolution and use a S-Video to VGA adapter and use that? I know it would not be battery powered and would need an AC power cord, but would that not work?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/314775-REG/AV_Tool_Box_AVT_3300_AVT3300_Up_Converter_Scan.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/383563-REG/Canon_0561B001_LV_CA33_S_Video_to_VGA.html

Now rememebr this is strictly for us guys running SD and AC power, but would that not make a good video monitor?
 
Kholi,

(I'm one of those lucky guys running a DVX :))

If there a place to attach a Noga arm to the Lilliput? Or is this a hack and slash construction requirement with this monitor?
 
Doby45-- You only need to power the LCD which is good. You can get a 7pin to 4pin S-Video converter off of Monoprice.com or the second link you have posted will work. Make sure it's a FOUR pin as cameras are FOUR pin. Seven pin carries RGB/High Quality signals. The Lilliput I have should do fantastic for any DV camera. You can get the 619GL or the newer 629GL.

Will-- Yeah. There's a bracket on the back to attach mechanisms.
dea7_1.JPG


Looks JUST like that. And, also, it came with the DESK STAND. I have an idea on how to convert it to work as an arm til I can get a NOGA m'self. That or the tight-looking Zacuto arm that costs like 300.00. OUCH.

In fact, you guys, I have a DVX downstairs. I'll go and test it out soon here with SD out VGA and S-Video. ... or I could just shoot SD out from the HVX and test it w/ and w/out the adapter. LOL.

Sometimes the easiest things come hard for me, and that harder come easy.
 
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Good work Kholi. I appreciate your testing of this.

I'm going to keep checking back here for your "final analysis".
 
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