what to look for in a foley mic?

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sonofdirt

New member
Hi, I'm trying to choose a mic for sound design and foley work in my bedroom studio for video games and film. I've done a lot of searching on this subject but still have some questions that I thought you guys could help me out with; I hope this thread may be useful to others as well.

Most articles & posts give me the impression I should use a shotgun condenser like the Rode NTG-2 but a few lead me to believe a cardioid is best. Is it best to use a shotgun mic for outdoor sound effects recording and then a cardioid for indoor foley? Or perhaps will a super-cardioid shotgun do the best indoors as well because it will give a more focused & detailed sound? (please correct me if i'm wrong)

One post I read lead me to believe most foley work in film is done with a shotgun mic based on the idea that you should use the same mic, or one close to it, that was used to record dialogue so the fx recordings will sound natural when mixed with the dialogue. Is this the main attraction to shotgun mic's for foley or are they simply the best choice for detailed FX recordings?

I currently own a Oktava MK-319 (cardioid) cheapo from guitar center which sounds 'ok' but i get the feeling a different mic would yield better results in sound effects recording. So far I'm looking at either the Rode NTG-2 or the Oktava MK012a (hyper cap), both fit my price range. Which of these two, or perhaps another suggestion, would be best for indoor and outdoor sound effects recording?
Your comments and advice are appreciated, thanks.
- Brian
 
The mics you listed are ill-suited to foley work; subtler effects will simply get lost in the mic's self noise, and that self noise will become quite pronounced as you layer tracks together.

First and foremost, foley recording demands an extremely low noise floor. Unfortunately, for those who hhave to work with a tight budget, that low noise starts with very high quality (ie. expensive) mics and preamps.

As for the pickup patterns, both shotgun and cardioid mics have their places in foley recording.

You are correct in saying that the widespread use of shotgun mics is in part due to their ubiquity in production recording, but shotgun mics have plenty of other advantages. For one, they provide a much more tightly focussed sound than cardioid mics, allowing you to place the mic further away from the sound being recorded. When cardioid mics are used as primary foley mics they tend to be placed quite close to the performance, which will exaggerate the dynamics of the sound (eg. the heel or toe is dispraportionately loud, making a footstep sound "tickey"). Backing the mic off 3 or 4 feet generally gives a more natural, rounded sound, and the shotgun pattern keeps the pickup nice and tight.

The studio where I work has two main spaces: a large interior/exterior room (a converted 3-car garrage with a high ceiling), and a smaller exterior room. The interior/exterio room houses all the interior floor surfaces, and the accoustics are made entirely variable through the use of heavy velvet curtains (so that we can close the curtains for dry exteriors and open the curtains to sound like a subway station). In the interior/exterior room we use a Sennheiser MKH416 for the primary mic, and a Neumann TLM103 (on an atlass stand at the extremety of the room) to add perspective where needed. The beauty of this method is that we can record the foley to perspective, which makes the dubbing mixer's job much easier (since they don't have to rely on reverb proccessing to fit the foley into the scene).

The exterior room is a much smaller room that has been partially treated with accoustic tile. Again, the accoustics are kept variable through the use of heavy curtains. This room doesn't actually have a sub-floor, so the dirt pits actually go all the way down to the bed-soil. In this room, we generally record with an MKH416 only (since we're using it exclusively for exteriors).

We have a few additional "stunt" mics in the cabinet that we bring out for special situations. The MKH416 has a tendency to get "spitty" when its used to record sounds with a lot of high-frequency energy (glass smashes, clapping), and in those cases we'll often use a Neumann TLM170 (set to a hyper polar pattern). We usually record with a 100 Hz HPF (not much down there during footsteps other than mechanical vibration up the mic stand), but when we need more bass than the MKH416 can give us (eg. stampeding cattle) we'll sometimes mix in a bit of an AKG D112. Additional mics include a DPA 8011 hydrophone, a Shure SM57 and `58, a Sony ECM-55 lav, and a C-Ducer contact transducer.

At one point, a visiting foley artist brought his DPA 4003 and we gave it a try. Being an omnidirectional mic, it required very careful placement to get the propper perspective, but that thing has got to be one of the lowest-noise mics I've ever heard. With a bit of extra work, we were able to get some surprisingly transparent and realistic perspectives out of it.

Outdoor sound effects recording is another issue altogether, although the MKH416 remains my mic of choice for field recording as well.
 
The stages I have worked at are mostly using large diaphragm condensers for Foley. THe small stage I work at the most now uses a TLM 414 as the main goto mic. We also on occasion use a dynamic and some times an AKG C1000. The C1000 has a slower response and smoothes out the grit a bit on FS. We rarely use a 4073 shotgun, though we would probably use it more if we just kept it on a stand wired in. The shotgun gives a very "close" sound. We have found that the "closeness" of the shotgun makes it hard to fit in the mix for "natural" Foley (what we are mostly doing) but is a plus when your doing Foley that needs to stand out in the mix.
We also occasionally use a second mic for "room". We would use it a lot more if the space was bigger but it's a very small stage so unless we open some doors there isn't much "room" to get. The large diaphragm VS shotgun maybe a bit of a Northern California VS Southern California thing, as I think shotguns are a lot more common down south. And I guess farther north ;~)
 
Oh extra points, as said before noise is a big issue. A noisy mic is near useless for Foley.

You can get your Oktava upgraded at OktavaMod.com (providing it is actually the Rusian model - pretty questionable if you bought it GC in the last few years) to be a very good and quiet mic for a fraction of the cost of a big name large diaphragm condenser.

For field work I use a pair of Oktava Cardioid 012's mostly. We also use a Neumann pair and the 4073.
 
Noiz2 said:
The large diaphragm VS shotgun maybe a bit of a Northern California VS Southern California thing, as I think shotguns are a lot more common down south. And I guess farther north ;~)
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I think you might have something, there. Different regional post-production communities inevitably have different preferences, and I've also noticed the North/South California thing.

Studio size and accoustics are important considerations when you're selecting mics. It all comes down to what gives you the sound you're looking for.
 
Hi again, you guys have given me some great perspective on this stuff, very informative replies all around. You both have covered some very good info on what attributes make a good foley mic and furthermore, their proper applications - I am very grateful for you taking the time to cover this topic.

First and foremost I've learned that I should be looking for a low-noise microphone, which I gather will give me the most headroom in a recording to capture greater detail. That makes perfect sense! :-)

So let's cut to the chase, after reading your replies and considering my budget these are the microphones that have caught my attention:
1. Rode NT1-a (5 dBA of self-noise according to spec and advertised as "the worlds quietest microphone" - kinda funny but for the reasonable price I hope it's true, sounds like a winner to me)
2. AKG C 3000 B (I've heard good things, and the similar C1000 was mentioned by Noiz2, I'm leaning towards the NT1-a w/ it's low-noise hype... but does the AKG deserve a closer look?)
3. Rode NT-4

About the NT-4, my buddy says he loves his for recording ambiences & such in stereo and he recommended I look into it for foley work, but isn't this more of a specialty mic rather than something appropriate for foley? Of the few articles I've found on the net, I do see sound effects artists recording in the field w/ a stereo matched pair or with a M/S setup, but I have a hunch these stereo rigs are best put to use for ambience recording and perhaps not close-up detail. <-- comments?
Of course this raises the whole Mono vs Stereo question, and I'm curious what you guys have to say on that issue.

Here's my best guess on the fundamentals of foley:
1. Record subjects up-close w/ a cardioid condenser (signal hot & clean) but back it off if it sounds 'too dynamic' or unnaturally exaggerated.
2. If you're backing off too much use a shotgun mic at greater distance for a more even response. (here I'm thinking back to your footstep example where you want to capture the subtle details of the walking surface, but at the same time the 'heel toe' clickity clack is much louder than everything in between. That's a great example because it makes sense to me that a mic further away but with a tight directional pattern would sound more even while retaining detail in this type of situation.)
3. Stereo recordings are great for ambiences, but not entirely necessary? (still a question mark for me on this one, will recording sound effects in stereo yield a better result? I'm thinking no for most things... but yes for indoor/outdoor ambience, and the occasional live concert)

So what do you think, A+ or D- on my foley101 report card?
Thanks again for all your input, you guys are pro
- Brian
ps. I'm an aspiring sound designer in LA looking to network and work on all types of projects. My previous experience includes producing soundfx and music for a 26 episode educational cartoon series. I am also an expert sound synthesist when it comes to audio electronics since taking the entire electronic music curriculum @ UT as electives in college, I love this stuff.
 
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sonofdirt said:
Stereo recordings are great for ambiences, but not entirely necessary? (still a question mark for me on this one, will recording sound effects in stereo yield a better result? I'm thinking no for most things... but yes for indoor/outdoor ambience, and the occasional live concert)
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Foley is almost always recorded in mono. For some effects (background cutlery, group feet, water, etc.) we may record two passes (L and R) for pseudo-stereo, but the tracks themselves are almost always recorded mono. On Imax films, we'll record additional material to fill up the eight speaker channels (L, CL, C, CR, R, Ls, Rs, C-high), but its still a pseudo-surround group of mono tracks.

For that reason I wouldn't reccomend the NT-4 for foley work. The fixed X-Y pattern makes it rather akward to use if you only want a mono recording. It's also a rather dull-sounding mic, and lacks the sensitivity and low self-noise of the MKH416 and TLM103. I haven't used the Rode NT-1a, but mic noise specifications can be very deceptive. One thing I like about the MKH416 is that the character of its self-noise is such that it can be blended into the moves pass. For example, we occasionally use a Schoeps cardiod that has a lower self-noise specification, but it has a more raspy, lower-pitched self noise.

Avoid taking the plunge and investing in a mic until you've at least had a chance to try it out for a day or two in your foley room.
 
I can't remember ever recording Foley in stereo. Foley is often/ mostly mixed to the same place as the dialog and so is usually in the center speaker. I heard a "rule" that has it's issues but still works in a general sort of way, that if it's smaller than your head you record in mono. Most recordists that I know record FX(were talking field recording not Foley) in stereo. If I'm going to be doing a lot of recording that I know wiil be mono I'll change mics, but usually I will just tilt the zep so one mic is aimed at what I want and the other is off Access and then just chuck the off access (or keep it, you never know what might come in handy). This is mostly for convenience since most of what I'm recording is stereo. THere is also occasionally special situations where I'm using two different mics or two very different locations so some times it's dual mono.

You loose a point on your Foley final for using the lower case. Foley is capitalized because it is a persons name.
You will have to stay after and clean the chalk board ;~)
 
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