Deciding on Brevis35 or M2 next week...

kgb

kgb

Active member
I know there are lots of threads on this matter, so let me make this brief because I'm very close to making the final call.

From my first hand knowledge, I've tried the Red Rock M2 at NAB this year. It's very nice, like the follow focus w/ whip, seems like great customer support. The price is about 1245 for the base package with the HD achromat and one lens adapter.

The Brevis is right at or below a grand, and it's supposedly lighter in weight and about a 1/2 stop to a full stop brighter than the M2. Each adapter seems to be about 55-60% in cost compared to the equivalent M2's ie. Nikon, Canon, PL etc.

From your collective experience, taking budget, build quality, vignetting, and performance into account, which adapter would you recommend for me? I'm planning on getting both the Nikon and Canon lens adapters, 55mm, 85mm, and 105/110mm lenses with an f-stop of sub 2. Mobility would be a nice option. I'm shooting for shallow DOF.

Thanks in advance...
 
I would go with the SG Pro myself, if I had the money to buy a 35mm adapter. Just seems to be the best built, and just best all around 35mm adaptor.
 
I own the M2 but based on TODAY'S cost's and the recent footage I've seen coming from the Brevis I'd lean towards the Brevis.
 
I highly reccomend the Brevis 35. I have been an owner for about 6 months now, and have been very impressed with the results, but mostly how modular it is. Vignette is a problem with all adaptors and Cinevate's solution was to make multiple ground glasses that you can buy depending on the lenses you are using and the camera you own - THAT is amazing. There are a lot of other examples of this kind of constant revision that current owners don't have to have missed the boat on.

Also, remember you can use the Brevis without a rod or support system (it screws onto the barrell) but it is reccomended that you get one if you are using longer lenses (and plus it gives you the option to use a mattbox etc).
 
i own the brevis and you simply cant beat it for ease of use (simple-ish setup compared to ALL the rest AND it doesnt REQUIRE a rails set up to use). as far as what ive seen from end product images i [think] i like the sg pro a bit better. but to be honest ive seen great images from all the units! the thing about all of them is that there are SOOOOO many variables to address in the process of use that youre going to see all kinds of different/similar footage from all of them. depends on camera settings, lens choices, etc, etc...

and as far as the follow focus+whip thing, that shouldnt be a factor as you can add that to ANY of them

its just comes down to your tastes and your experience. for a new 35mm user id STRONGLY suggest the brevis!

one of the biggest spec arguments between brands is the issue of light loss. and from what ive heard, it seems that the brevis is in the middle, with m2 losing the most and sg pro losing the least.
 
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wgzn said:
i own the brevis and you simply cant beat it for ease of use (simple-ish setup compared to ALL the rest AND it doesnt REQUIRE a rails set up to use). as far as what ive seen from end product images i [think] i like the sg pro a bit better. but to be honest ive seen great images from all the units! the thing about all of them is that there are SOOOOO many variables to address in the process of use that youre going to see all kinds of different/similar footage from all of them. depends on camera settings, lens choices, etc, etc...

and as far as the follow focus+whip thing, that shouldnt be a factor as you can add that to ANY of them

its just comes down to your tastes and your experience. for a new 35mm user id STRONGLY suggest the brevis!

one of the biggest spec arguments between brands is the issue of light loss. and from what ive heard, it seems that the brevis is in the middle, with m2 losing the most and sg pro losing the least.
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Great, thank you all for taking the time to reply. I am hearing things about the SG Pro, but nothing about the price. I'm assuming it's a bit more than the M2. I think simplicity is invaluable at this point, and just mounting a Brevis on my HVX seems like the most convenient solution, because I want to shoot a drama short for three days in August.

So if I am able to order an adapter and test it out for a few weeks, then I can accomplish my goal. I've got an audition in a week from Wednesday and have to narrow it down from 40-60 actors and I'm getting more submissions every day. That's LA for ya, hehe. Generally speaking, would you go with the Nikon or Canon line of lenses? I've been keeping tabs on both, and it seems as though Nikon has a wider range of budget prime lenses that are fast. I would like to get into the Leicas and Zeiss lines, but what kind of mounts do they reside on?
 
Thanks for your kind support on the adapter guys :-) The unit just got better as we're shipping the REV2-MC as of tomorrow. Swapping lens mounts and getting them perfectly fine-tuned is now a snap with an updated front ring assembly...and yes, a modular upgrade for existing REV2 users.

K, Nikon is the most popular mount simply as you have the most lens choices when using it. Nikon is the only manufacturer that has stayed with the same basic mount type to this date.
 
but when will the flip module be out buddy? been nagging ya forever about it :) hehe.
 
I have used them all and the Brevis gives you the most flexibility. It is getting better and better with each revision. The diffuser swapping is the killer app. M2 loses WAY more light and it not really viable for run and gun or indoor work with natural light. SGpro is somewhere in the middle but too much set-up to get it perfect.



ash =o)
 
The first production flip modules are due here any day, and long-awaited follow focus shipment, about 4-5 weeks :-)
 
Is there any reason I that a 185mm would be better with the Brevis than a 70-200 VR?

Also, is there any reason to favor Canon lenses over Nikon or vise versa?
 
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I too would recommend the Brevis, I have been on shoots with other adapters and it seems like much time is wasted in setting up and tweaking or playing with it for some reason. I have no idea what they are adjusting but it always seems to be something. The multiple GG thing is great and just keeps getting better so if you want a really shallow DOF you put in one GG and if you want a more easy to manage medium DOF you change out. The weight of it is like less that half of what the other adapters are and if you have ever hand held any of them you will know how much of a pain it is to work with the others. Also another pain is if you are trying to fly one on a glide cam. You have to put soo much weight on the bottom to offset the top with the other adapters thats its almost impossible to do unless you have a giant forearm. I'm sure people do it but if they had a Brevis they would see how much less you need to balance. My site has a ton of Brevis stuff on it if you havn't already looked.
www.puffinfilms.com
 
AshG said:
SGpro is somewhere in the middle but too much set-up to get it perfect.
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Whoa, this confuses me here. Other than screwing the thing on what do you have to do? Also, what version did you use?
The m2 has gotten a lot better from what i've seen too. The hardmount kit that they sell helps quite a bit. It still loses a stop more light than the sgpro though.

I haven't used the brevis yet but am very interested in it.
 
Not sure about the brevis but with the M2 you have to setup the back focus. It varies but sometimes that initial setup can take awhile.

I've had mine for about a year and a half. I use the "hard Mount" method that some people talk about. I can setup the adapter with my HVX in about 5 minutes tops. As far as light loss you get it with any adapter - so either way plan on using more light.

I would absolutely try BOTH before you buy.
 
I have had continued success with the M2 and it produces an excellent image. The hardmount kit should be standard as it simplifies the entire backfocus process. Also I should point out that backfocus needs to be set really only once and the units ship pretty close to calibrated for the mount you order. The only time you would be making changes is during routine maintenence or if you're changing lens mounts.

The other nice thing about the M2 is that it has a rotating GG rather than a stationary or vibrating one. Stationary GG produces odd still textures in the out of focus parts of the image. With a vibrating GG the glass is actually shifting in and out of calibration by a fraction of a mm. This is theorectically shifting the sharpness of the image on each vibration, though if it is well calibrated you would be hard pressed to identify it with your eye.

check out the sample footage on their page
http://redrockmicro.com/samples.html

I shot the 3rd one down from the top ;)
 
one of the BIG drawbacks to the SG PRO is that its the smallest operation of the big 3 and the delivery is crazy, CRAZY slow. they only ship batches every 30 days or more. so if you need one in short order, its a non issue - unless you get lucky and there is an open spot at the end of an "about to ship" production run.

i was talking a lot with both dennis (of brevis) and wayne (of sg pro) before i made my decision and they both were REALLY great with helpful info. it just came down to which one was simply AVAILABLE. so far i really quite like the overall ins and outs of the brevis and consider it the most adaptable of the lot...
 
I have a Brevis and think it's great.

But, keep in mind that great looking cinematography is reliant on far more than just a 35mm adapter.
 
Nathan, we take extraordinary measures to make sure our imaging elements are not only perfect aligned in the Z axis, but also that the focusing plane is rock solid. Spinning discs that are not perfectly true and aligned (that would be all of the existing ones) can not only see a large runout, but are also nearly impossible to precisely align in the Z axis. This is why we don't make a spinner.

Combined with 100% computer controlled (CNC) machining of every part in the Brevis, we also use incredibly precise assembly tools to guarantee a z axis alignment of +- .001" To the layperson, that means we bend over backwards to make sure the imaging element is perfectly aligned, and stays that way, regardless of users swapping in/out imaging elements. I can't speak for the other oscillating designs out there, but I can guarantee that ours does not vary measurably in the z axis during operation.
 
Dennis Wood said:
Spinning discs that are not perfectly true and aligned (that would be all of the existing ones) can not only see a large runout, but are also nearly impossible to precisely align in the Z axis. This is why we don't make a spinner.
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Nearly every M2 and Sgpro (especially Sgpro) is perfectly aligned. if it werent the results would be horrid. Also, if it ever should go out of wack, wayne desined the Sg to be adjustable, externally, while running, hooked up to a camera and a monitor. this way you can make absolutly sure its perfect. its really not an issue.
 
Maintaining radial runout tolerances below +- .002" at or near the edge of a static 85 to 90mm polymer disc is nearly impossible. Glass yes, polymer no. Spin it on a collet that is not perfectly aligned on a 1.5mm motor shaft, and it is practically impossible. Rack focus through an out-of-focus specular highlight and you'll almost certainly see a degree of halation that should not be there as a result. The words "perfectly" and "nearly" IMHO are fairly subjective, particularly when optics manufacturers spec everything down to thousandths of an inch.

Focusing-plane perpendicularity is important enough to us to have invested thousands of dollars in tooling to not only accurately set it within +- 001", but also prevent users from altering it. Now that the REV2-MC units that we are shipping lock in lens mount alignment while allowing micro collimation adjustment, the unit is about as user friendly as I could imagine.
 
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