Desperately seeking anyone who knows about slow motion

N

name_user

New member
I've been frequenting this board all day, trying to get up to speed on high speed cameras. The thing is, I intend to shoot a film this summer, which requires a great deal of slow motion. However, I don't mean that choppy slow motion you get in an editing program, I mean, the real deal. The kind you see on crash test dummy videos and in hollywood movies.


Now, I know there's software like adobe, where I could immitate the effect, however, that's not what I want. I want a camera that can capture the effect of "over cranking" and capture that beautiful, fluid slow motion you see in movies and music videos.

So for the scenes I intend to shoot in slow motion, my question is this:

-What camera could I get for the job

-Price is an issue, this is a low budget movie, so anything cheap would be great (even used is fine). I keep hearing rumors that a camera like that would cost A LOT. However, I'd like to know the price range regardless.

-Where's a good place to order one (international shipment would also help)

-Any advice on technique or the best possible way to shoot? Frame rates, etc.










P.S- Extra Off Topic Questions

-I currently have a friend who owns a very expensive and new panasonic, I don't know the make but I want to know if there exist panasonic cameras that can emulate slo-mo, if so, how can I test to see if my friend's camera does?

-In terms of cinematography, I need this movie to look EXACTLY like any hollywood film. Could someone tell me the basics I would need to achieve the look? For example, I know there's software that can give me the "300 movie" look but I never like what I see there. I recently saw Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz, and realized that the cinematography and lighting was just beautiful. I just want to know what I would need to immitate a look like that, and what I would further need if I wanted to achieve something like the cinematography of say The Matrix, 300, Snatch, etc.
 
You need to hire people to get that look for you. People that are really good at their jobs, who have been working for awhile. You are not going to get it out of some software. At the very least, read a book.

The Panasonic HVX200, HPX500, and Varicam all do what you want. They are $5500, $14,000 (plus lens), and $45,000 (plus lens) respectively.
 
You want to shoot at faster frame rates to get the slow motion effect. That's how film does it. You don't create slow-mo in post, you shoot faster frame rates in-camera.

As BennisHahn said, the Panasonic models listed above all do it, but the slow motion isn't super-slow motion. If you want extreme slow motion you'll have to look at a special-purpose camera like something from PhotoSonics.
 
Could you tell me what frame rate the panasonics could capture? 60 fps is good enough for me. However, my issue with PhotoSonics and special purpose cameras is that I can't find out the price and no matter who I email, no one seems to wanna tell me.
 
Also I understand that I'd need professionals for the job, but I want to know what the professionals actually do and use in their job of cinematography.
 
name_user said:
I need this movie to look EXACTLY like any hollywood film. Could someone tell me the basics I would need to achieve the look?
Click to expand...

These two statements are completely at odds with each other. You're never going to get anything "Hollywood" out of the basics. This is a job that most people spend five or ten years at before they're able to achieve those kind of results. There's no magic bullet (pun intended, or not) that's going to magically allow you to do it. It takes training, time, and money. However, if you hire someone who knows their stuff, they'll also be able to answer all of your other questions for you.
 
name_user said:
However, my issue with PhotoSonics and special purpose cameras is that I can't find out the price and no matter who I email, no one seems to wanna tell me.
Click to expand...

All of these Panasonics will capture at 60fps. For the specialty cameras, I'd expect a few thousand dollars per day.
 
If you want crash dummy like footage you must go beyond what panasonic offers in its products. Special cameras are made just for slowmotion. A production I worked on as an assistant to the Dp rented a camera (which brand fleets my memory) but it shot up to 10,000 frames per second. Here is a link to a teaser they have for the film and use one of the many slow motion gun shots.

Enjoy
http://escape-entertainment.com/faceless.html

(I dont think that was 10k a second, I think to save on light loss that is around 5k-8k. Not sure.)

I don't think it is a few thousand a day. I remember them paying a good chunk of change but not THOUSANDS a Day. More like 1,000 or so for a couple... I'll ask them what company they used if you would like.
 
=Prodigy= said:
I don't think it is a few thousand a day. I remember them paying a good chunk of change but not THOUSANDS a Day. More like 1,000 or so for a couple... I'll ask them what company they used if you would like.
Click to expand...

I'd find that hard to believe, honestly. A Varicam rents for $800 day at market rate, I can't imagine a rare, highly specialized piece of kit going for less. In any case, once you factor in all the extra lights you're likely to need, you're definitely way up there in price.
 
name user,

When you say slow motion, you have to specify how much slower. the HVX shoots 60fps at 720p, so if you play back at 24fps if you shoot 10 seconds of real time at 720p/60fps, then you can play back at 25 seconds of 720p/24fps without loosing any frames (perfectly smooth) that is 2.5x real time.

If you need more than than without breaking the bank, I'd suggest going with Twixtor for After Effects on top of the 2.5 you can get from the HVX.

As for the Hollywood look, you'll either need a film camera, or HVX or other true 24fps camera (this is what film usually is), 35mm adapter and lenses (this gives you depth of field. a great DP with good set of lights, a great Audio guy with good equipment, and great actors, and an amazing script. And an amazing director with a great vision.

Equipment is just tools, and we can give you a list of things to get, but without the people to handle the tools properly, you are still going to get crap.

may I suggest, renting some equipment and doing some test first to see if you or whoever you are working with can come close to the look that you are looking for before you even begin with your film. This will give you an idea of what it takes.

good luck.
 
The Phantom HD slo-mo camera that Dalsa rents, rents for $2500 a day. That is a top notch slo motion camera. It will capture 1000 fps...that should do the trick.

D.L.
 
thank you very much to everyone that replied.

My only problem I guess was that I thought you could BUY a specialized, slow motion camera.
 
You can, but you are going to spend alot of money. The cameras that they use to shoot models exploding run the film super fast. the magazines only last but a few minutes if not seconds. And you guessed it. They COST A TON OF MONEY!!!!
so if "price is an issue" Then forget about it.
 
Don't forget about light

Don't forget about light

We shot some skateboarding stuff for Nike SB a couple of years ago on a super high speed camera used primarily for scientific filming. What I want to add to this thread is the incredible amount of light needed to capture at high speeds. A DP with a "light set" won't cut it. We used several Maxi-Brutes globed with 1200s just to get our base up. At 14K watts per instrument that's a lot of amps, which requires a stage or a 500amp plant minimum.
As others have suggested, this is not a look you can go out and get without experience and resources. For example, no rental house is going to let a gennie go out the door without a qualified operator.
Another avenue to explore is to contact a post-house and see what they have to offer.
If you have a budget, hire a producer that's produced this type of thing. The biggest mistakes I made earlier in my career was trying to figure it all out for myself.
I've learned a different approach. Whenever I have an idea that I can't afford, I try to ask myself what I'm trying to communicate visually. I get down to the simplest level possible and build from there. I've learned to embrace this through the experience of finding solutions that express my intentions without looking like I failed for lack of resources. Without limitations, there's no creativity.
 
Well Put Finding_Fellini.

If I can explain. It seems from his initial thread that he is trying to find a cheap solution for an expensive problem:
-What camera could I get for the job
-Price is an issue, this is a low budget movie, so anything cheap would be great (even used is fine). I keep hearing rumors that a camera like that would cost A LOT. However, I'd like to know the price range regardless.
-Where's a good place to order one (international shipment would also help)
-Any advice on technique or the best possible way to shoot? Frame rates, etc.
Click to expand...
-In terms of cinematography, I need this movie to look EXACTLY like any Hollywood film. Could someone tell me the basics I would need to achieve the look? For example, I know there's software that can give me the "300 movie" look but I never like what I see there. I recently saw Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz, and realized that the cinematography and lighting was just beautiful. I just want to know what I would need to imitate a look like that, and what I would further need if I wanted to achieve something like the cinematography of say The Matrix, 300, Snatch, etc.
Click to expand...
Like you mentioned these cameras require a massive amount of light. So a regular household electrical panel will not be able to handle this.
You'll probably need 5k or 10k or 15k like you said. A 20amp circuit can only power about a 2k light.
Also might need HMI which are expensive.
He plans to do a lot of slow motion throughout the film. (expensive, expensive, expensive)
He also asked about international shipping which lead me to conclude that he would not be renting the unit, but wanted to buy a used one. (expensive and impractical. if its a film high-speed camera, they are usually just set up for that. Its not like you get a film camera that goes 24fps that you can also crank at 200fps. its usually one or the other. unless I'm miss informed)
(Not to mention the development cost of film)
If its a digital camera, then they also cost a lot of money, and I can't imagine that they will be the camera you want to shoot your whole movie with. Like you mentioned they are specific for one application. (probably one fixed lens)

So when I said "Forget about it" what I really meant was:
If its a low budget film, then forget about buying this high speed camera.
As you stated, constraints force us to become creative about finding a solution. That is why I suggested getting an HVX and over cracking 60fps to 24fps. x2.5 times real time. Have him take a look at that effect, and if its still not enough go with something like Twixtor for After Effects. I think he'll be happily surprised of what you can achieve with that.

ps: Finding_Fellini, just for kicks, how much was the Cost of that high speed shoot for Nike??
 
dougspice said:
I'd find that hard to believe, honestly. A Varicam rents for $800 day at market rate, I can't imagine a rare, highly specialized piece of kit going for less. In any case, once you factor in all the extra lights you're likely to need, you're definitely way up there in price.
Click to expand...
Well I'll ask the producer where he rented the camera from and what the prices were. If I am correct, I will definately pass the info to you guys. If I am wrong (if it costs thousands a day) I will apologize for my misunderstanding. Either way I'll get back to you guys.

And btw, since it was a student film, we don't pay to take out lighting kits and whatnot. For those super slowmotion shots we had 2 HMI jokerbugs, a couple (2-3) tungsten 1ks and some 650s all blasting onto the actor. It took LOTS of light.
 
so yeah in the end, I realized that there is just no damn way I can get genuine slow motion footage unless I plant a money tree in my backyard. I honest to god, was under the impression that I could actually just BUY a camera capable of slow motion for a reasonable price. I really don't care if its film or used, I just want my darn slow motion. I'll settle for those oldie cameras where I have to crank em real fast.
 
Now that we have broken your spirit. (just kiddint)
Check out this video. I believe it was shot with a HDV camera, so I don't think it was filmed at 60fps.
I know at times it looks too blurry and not what you are looking for, but think how much better it would look being filmed at 60fps, played back at 24fps and then applying twixtor. I think this might give you very good results and stay within your budget.
ps: I don't work for that company nor have tried the software, but that little video has stayed in my mind and I can't wait to use it when the time to do slow mo comes.
 
Wellllll..................

You can rent an HVX200, shoot in 60p. then using twixtor do a decent 120p look alike..... it artifacts a little but its ALOT better tha nthe crap the V1 outs out. thats a friggin joke.
 
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