Quality of on-camera mic- how much does it matter?

SAujla

SAujla

Member
I have been searching the threads for answers to this question but to no avail. Most of the disscusion (comparisons) centers on mics that can be placed in ideal positions. Now putting a mic on a camera is not ideal, I know, but in this case I have no choice as I will be working in a run and gun style. So is it worth spending the extra cash for a MKH416 when a ME66 or AT897 may be similar in a un-ideal position? So I guess the real question is: Which mic is more forgiving in terms of mic placement? Will the a mic like the MKH416 always beat the pants off a mic like.. say a Rode NTG-2?
 
From my very limited experience with the MKH416, I don't think it would work very well at all as an on-camera mic. In my opinion, it would be too far away from the subjects that the mic's very selective pickup (generally a strong point of the mic) could actually end up hurting you.
 
I have to tell ya - some people trash the ME66, but I use it on camera for wedding receptions, walk-around interviews with lots of background noise (as you might imagine), and I'm always amazed how well the individual voice comes out on top with a lot of background rejection.
 
When I went down to buy a shotgun, I was actually going to buy an ME66. The salesperson at Coffey recommended the AT4073a (which is basically the same price) and had me listen to both of them. I found the ME66 to be rather harsh. I'm very happy with the AT mic and if you do a few searches you will find that's the general feeling.
 
I appreciate all the comments, thank you. I'm afraid this thread is going in the wrong direction though. I need to know the why's more than the what's. Of course audio is somewhat subjective and there will be diagreements when it come to certain recommendations. I would love to be able to go to an audio shop and hear the difference myself but I live in a rather remote area and don't have access to much equipment. Dick Cambell's post is basically what I'm talking about. But then people start bashing the ME66. What does "harsh" mean anyway? I need more objectivity. If I go with most of the recommendations then I would close my eyes and order a 416 but then if you read the post by agcohn he raises some interesting points that I can't easily disregard.
 
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bob15489 said:
When I went down to buy a shotgun, I was actually going to buy an ME66. The salesperson at Coffey recommended the AT4073a (which is basically the same price) and had me listen to both of them. I found the ME66 to be rather harsh. I'm very happy with the AT mic and if you do a few searches you will find that's the general feeling.
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What was the setup when you listened to the mic's? Were you inside or were you outside? How far away was the mic from the source of sound? Were there other mics that you tried? What sort of shooting do you do- studio, run and gun, or something else. When I say objectivity, the questions like those above is what I mean. Thanks for your input. I'm not saying the 4073a isn't a good mic, hell it might be perfect for what I need.
 
mjjason said:
Here is a good place for sound samples of various mics

http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics_guide.html

Personally, I think the rode NTG2 and AT 4073 sound the fullest and most warm.
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Thanks for the link. I have been to the site a couple of times before and was not able to
reach a meaningful conclusion. They all sound very close to my ear except the last one which is clearly inferior, it sounded flat not dynamic at all. The 4073 sounded a little muffled to me but that's just probably me. I would love to see someone do the same test but do it out on some busy street corner.
 
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You make it sound like we just sit around and decide this is a good mic, this isn't and we have something against the me 66. We have good headphones and good studio monitors and we have done tests to see what we prefer, what sounds more natural. The benchmark against which other shotguns are generally judged is the 416. You could spend more money and get a slightly better (subjective) or different sound. Like the Sanken cs3 that helps reduce proximity effect and has less problems working in rooms with reflective surfaces. Different tools for the job.

People don't like the me66 because it doesn't sound as natural as the at4073a. It sounds more tinny or shrill and for the same price you could get a better sounding mic. That's not to say that me66 doesn't have it's place. If it were less money, more people would use it. The nice thing about that sennheiser modular system is the ability to use the power supply with different mics. I still think the slightly wider pattern and nice sound of the 4073 would be a good choice. Or just spend half the money and get the rode. The really cheap at897 sounds really flat and unnatural a waste of money.

Just realize that people here don't just say something sucks for no reason. We try to be objective and have a good general concensus about what tools to use for the job. We work together to figue this stuff out. I have learned most of what I know at the feet of MattinSTL and Wabbit and Jeremy and Phil and oh ya, Oleg (and others) [plus a few years of real world experience and decent ears], so I don't have the most experience here, I have read about a million answers to your questions though. Your fist order of business is to get the mic off the camera and onto a boom.
 
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SAujla said:
Thanks for the link. I have been to the site a couple of times before and was not able to
reach a meaningful conclusion. They all sound very close to my ear except the last one which is clearly inferior, it sounded flat not dynamic at all. The 4073 sounded a little muffled to me but that's just probably me. I would love to see someone do the same test but do it out on some busy street corner.
Click to expand...

I use the Azden SGMx2 as my mono on cam mic and a AT825 as a stereo mic. The Azden is great for the price and has a roll-off switch which is very helpful in loud environments.
 
that test is a very difficult one to make decisions based on. most mics sound pretty decent in a studio at close range!

the whole point of buying better (and more expensive) mics is that they give you more scope to achieve good sound in BAD conditions. Pretty much all the mics mentioned here are competent to a certain degree in an ideal condition.

The only mics that I wouldnt touch would be the Azdens (sorry jnatalie - its just not a professional microphone).

The AT897 and the ME66 are near the bottom of my list because of their cost/performance ratio.

Mike is not pulling advice out his ass, you are asking for it - no one is bashing the ME66. Heck, I used one today to off screen mic an interpreter (the mic happened to be in one of the camera bags).. Its just not my first, second, third, fourth or probably even fifth choice if it has to be anywhere more than 1 foot from a mouth at the end of a boom.

Anyway. I'm going to say go with a Rode NTG2 or something - its pickup isnt razor tight, its cost isnt ridiculous, its pretty decent on background rejection.

Sure its not the best mic in the universe, but a camera mic isnt the best POSITION in the universe.

(And by the way, run n gun doesnt mean camera mic. Its a shoot style, not a technical lock down. I shoot sound on run n gun all the time)
 
Sorry it took so long to reply. When I listened to the mics, I was in the busy, crowded store. I listened to the AT4073a, the Rode NTG2, the ME66, and the 416 (mostly for comparison as it was a bit out of budget). They were all hooked up to their panel mixer. I found the AT rejected a bit more off-axis sound and sounded much more natural. Between listening to that online test in the studio and an actual "real world" test the AT worked best for me. I shoot mostly on-location stuff with some run n gun.
 
Indeed the test mentioned above is not giving the full picture. You usually have to deal with the notorious off-axis coloration of these mics, especially if you are not booming. Close and dead centre they all sound nice and much more similar than in real world applications.

To come back to the original question: is an expensive shotgun worth to be used as camera mic? - Yes, if you have good preamps, a good shock mount, good wind protection, etc.

On a PD150 the preamps were so bad that it wasn't worth a 1000$ mic. On a Z1 or Canon A1, their preamps are a class better but still :-(, it is probably still more important to get a hot mic (like the 4073a, to ease the burden on your preamps) than to go for the best and most expensive.

With good preamps there is no reason why you shouldn't go for an expensive shotgun. Give more consideration to the different off-axis coloration. Take also a look at the Neumann KMR 81 - in my view a wonderful mic, also on camera. It's off-axis coloration is also quite ulgy but it sets in much later (meaning the angle in which it has almost no coloration is quite big) and this may be important for use on cam.

I don't like the ME66 either. As for so many people it was my first mic. And as so many people I came to dislike its sound.
 
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