Lighting in a dusk: Tungsten, HMI or KinoFlo?

J

juraj

Active member
Hi,

i need to light a large set - a couple of cars, 20 dancing people like background for main singer. This is going to be shot in an exterior (powered from gas-generator) in a dusk. What kind and what power of light should i rent for best match with natural light? This same rented lighting i want to use in the next night scene. What about match car lighting with this lights? Thanks for every advice.
 
HMI probably although there have been plenty of other posts around here where they did shots with tungsten at night. Fluorescent is too weak to use outdoors like this for getting any distance. 20 people is a big area. It all depends upon the effect you want. Is this a nighttime effect with hard shadows on one side of their faces? Or are they more well lit with a kind of "sunset" warm orange effect all over the people?

You may need a bit more light than you're thinking depending upon the answers to those questions.
 
Shooting with tungsten lights and a daylight white balance can create a very warm effect, which may be what you're looking for. Vitorrio Storaro used this in some of his films. Low powerful tungsten fixtures cutting across the ground with a daylight film stock to look like golden sunset.
 
thanks, guys... I think, very warm effect is not exactly what i want. I need to show the dusk atmosphere but i'm afraid of shooting just with natural light.

So, some not very noticeable lighting would be great. Best option maybe will be to rent some HMI's with softboxes.

I saw some pictures shot with HMI at night and i think, that this look will be fine for my night scenes. Do you think, that it is good idea to rent just HMI's for this my two sets? (dusk and night?) What is more, i could use them as a fill light when shooting on daylight.

It is going to be a music video, which we want to shot from morning over dusk to night. So on entire filming day i could use one lighting equipment, which means saved some money... What do you think? Am i right if i'm thinking that HMI is most universal light for different kind of natural light? thanks
 
Well you certainly get more lumens per watt out of it so yes it goes further with whatever generators or power sources you may have. So I think the effect you may want is the light from the side then and perhaps a bit more white or tending toward blue?
 
yes. you could always gel an HMI warmer with hopefully not too much light loss. Bounce the light on a big sheet of muslin or a huge reflection board. If your colors match then it should be a nice fill for everyones faces without looking 'lit'
 
I've a possibility to rent Arri Compact and Arri X for approximately same prices... What would you recommend me? I think to get 2 x Arri Compact 1,2 kW (one with softbox just for to be sure, if softer light will be needed) and 2 x Arri Compact 575 W.

Some advice on Arri X would be great, because i didn't see any this light on my own eyes yet. Thanks
 
What about pars instead of fresnels? Those compacts have really small lens (5" for the 575 for instance). They're so much more efficient in output thanks to lens/reflector combo.

What does the rental house offer besides the fresnels in HMI? Otherwise, it sounds like you're on the right track but I doubt you'll use the softbox if you bring the big sheet to bounce off of.
 
Thanks Richard. I'm deleting chimera from my list:) Rental house have still Arrisun and "Aurasoft" lights, than in HMI category only Arri X and Compact. What is your recommendation?

I found one more low-cost rental company, which has HMI light of brand that name i really don't rememer, it was something like "Strength lights" or so... They're 6 times cheaper than they rivals with Arris. But they told me, that their lights are not like flicker-free Arri. And that it could make problems with my generator. Could someone explain this to me, please? What is dimmer and ballast? Has this somethnig to do with "flicker-free"? Thanks
 
Well "dimmer and ballast" is the unit that controls the light and has everything to do with whether it flickers or not. There are some units that flicker for sure. Flickering has nothing to do with the generator or making problems for it. If the light might make a problem for the generator its more likely something to do with the startup pulse is a bit larger than normal and may spike your generator. Make sure they get you the proper unit to go with whatever lights you're getting and do a test too while you're there.

Dimming: some HMI's are dimmable and some even have DMX dimming capability. On the subject of dimming, I've never heard of an HMI that can be dimmed below 50% very effectively (that's just the nature of these metal halide type lamps like HMI).

"Strength Lights" could be "Strand Lighting" which is a brand that makes an HMI unit or two. Your "6 times cheaper" light has a magnetic ballast and is very probably more useful at corporate events and parties than for shooting video or film from what they are saying. Maybe even has a low CRI bulb in it. It might work out and it might not. The best I can recommend there is to talk them into letting you do a free test with your video camera to see if you like the results for color rendering and flicker. If the cheap one doesn't work out maybe take a look at the arrisun lens size and wattage and if it's a par or fresnel.

Not familiar with Arri X. Don't have any experience with Aurasoft but I understand it to have a built-in reflector which softens the light output you might also test this unit it could be pretty good as I think the size of the light output is rather large.
 
I didn't guess, that HMI is so difficult to understand comparing to tungsten "plug-n-play":) Ballasts etc... But i'm reading lot of messages explaining that (for example on www.cinematography.net there are many worthful infos).

For this project, i'm going to test that cheap HMI's at the rental house with my DVX100. But i'm guessing, that it shouldn't flicker, because of shooting in 25P, shutter 1/50 and 50Hz generator:) I'm curious:) Thanks for your patience with me, Richard:)
 
The main difference between magnetic ballasts and "flicker -free" ballasts are that the flicker -free ballasts are electronic which means they can be used at any frame rate (theoretically), wheras you should only use magnetic ballasts when shooting frame rates divisible by 6; 24,30,48,60 etc. When shooting those frame rates a magnetc ballast is exactly the same except for the fact that most electronic ballasts are equipped with dimmers. Magnetic ballasts do not dim and cannot be placed on outboard dimming systems.
 
Keith: Frame rates divisible by 6 is for US users? I assume, since we here in Europe have 50 Hz frequency in sockets, that for us is this number 5. So i believe, that shooting with HMI's with magnetic ballasts will be with 25 fps and 1/50 s shutter OK. Correct me, if i'm wrong...

One way or the other, I'm going to do some tests at rental house soon.
 
I made some tests:

- there is no flicker when shooting in 25P (1/50s shutter, tested with 1/120 so - no problem) with HMI with magnetic ballast. Yet tested just with power from socket. But i hope, it will be OK with generator as well, because of same frequency.
 
juraj said:
But i hope, it will be OK with generator as well, because of same frequency.
Click to expand...

It won't flicker with the generator unless there are some underpowering issues which shouldn't be the case if your rental company helped you correctly with generator size. You're pretty much ready to go.
 
Generator is from another rental house, so no tests were done:) I'll be clever on Sunday - on the set:o) Thanks to everyone, who helped me in this thread. Mostly to you, Richard!
 
"In the can!":) HMI's with magnetic ballasts on generator worked well (we've used just 2 x 1,2 kW and 1 x pretty soft 575 W on 6,5 kW genny) - no flicker on the footage:) Now, i'm thinking, if there is some reason, why to don't light with HMI's everything:) Because of good prices in that rental company and it seems, that HMI is the most versatile lighting...
 
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