I have $24.95 and want all the graphics to look like Star Wars

{Sigh}, OK, OK, so I'm feelin' like a bit of a troublemaker. I'd kinda like this thread to turn out to be one of those educational threads about the virtue and skill of allocating funds and resources equally to the visual and graphic production, when making a film.

One can hope, can't one.


Silicon Audio Labs
Great sound is half the picture!
- -- ~~<((( d(-_-)b )))>~~ -- -
 
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hrmm. I've never seen or heard a breakdown and am actually curious what percentage of the budegt goes into audio on a feature. From location mixing to post/ foley/ effects/ mastering what % is generally allocated or budgeted for? Ah, and then do we include the music/ soundtrack/ score and recording into that. I would think it actually is a decent chunk, but thats just a guess.

Sorry S.A.L., but when someone thinks to themselves "I'm going to make a movie!" its:

Step 1. lights, camera, action and... cut. hrmm. This isn't right

Step 2. "dear audio group. I have come to realise the value of good sound. My sm58 does not seem to get the sound i want when placed 10 feet away from the actor. what do you suggest?

Step 3. Ah. i see. Perhaps I can get one of those shotgun mic and put it on the camera. Which one is the best for $175?

Step 4. Why are you flaming me? I'm just trying to make a top quality product. the varicam and prime lenses, my jib, steadicam and a combined 150k watts of lights really set me back.

Step 5. OK, you have convinced me. Looking for pro sound mixer. 4 month shoot. You will have full credit and deferred pay until we sell this puppy. Believe me, THERES ALREADY BUZZ ABOUT THIS IN HOLLYWOOD!!! In the meantime, I can offer you $24.95


and then there's the favorite line which will always demean the sound department...

"Oh Hell, waiting on sound...again" regardless of the 45 minutes it took to put up a flag as opposed to the 15 seconds to handle a rustling mic or getting f***ed by a hmi that just got moved near the boom, etc.

BTW, if you are new to sound and someone actually ever says this to you, take the ****er aside and have a nice little chat.
 
I feel your pain Silicon; been there mentally 100 times before and no doubt will be there again in the future. Tell them to read the stickies, get a book or two, and get back to you in the morning.

TVSound said:
Sorry S.A.L., but when someone thinks to themselves "I'm going to make a movie!" its:

Step 1. lights, camera, action and... cut. hrmm. This isn't right

Step 2. "dear audio group. I have come to realise the value of good sound. My sm58 does not seem to get the sound i want when placed 10 feet away from the actor. what do you suggest?

Step 3. Ah. i see. Perhaps I can get one of those shotgun mic and put it on the camera. Which one is the best for $175?

Step 4. Why are you flaming me? I'm just trying to make a top quality product. the varicam and prime lenses, my jib, steadicam and a combined 150k watts of lights really set me back.

Step 5. OK, you have convinced me. Looking for pro sound mixer. 4 month shoot. You will have full credit and deferred pay until we sell this puppy. Believe me, THERES ALREADY BUZZ ABOUT THIS IN HOLLYWOOD!!! In the meantime, I can offer you $24.95
Click to expand...

Now this is some serious LOL here. On a particular sound un-friendly shoot, the boom op and I wrote out a couple page manifesto called, "Diary of the Indy Filmmaker, or Why my Sound Sucks!" and parts of it were almost verbatim what you wrote there. Many times I have been tempted to post it after a particularly rude poster bitching that he can't get the answer he wants to hear ("OK, it's a big secret but this $300 mic is all you need for perfect sound"), but this "diary" is several pages long and does get a little condescending at times...which for some producers would simply be tit for tat.

On a more positive vide, people like this are simply learning; yeah they have no respect for sound, but either they will learn or they will stall out and fail at this business. Either way we will continue on unfettered by those who choose to only hear what they want to hear (both figuratively and literally).

I hope you are able to inspire some helpful discussion here but once this group of freshman filmmakers either catches on or fails there will be another group waiting right behind them; just as naive as the last was.

Buck up, cheap and mentally lazy people never succeed...unless they are related to someone...or go into porn...or politics...or have parents who own hotel chains...or decide on a career in G&E :) (jk love my G&E bro's).

Cheers
 
Ah, reminds me of the ads I see for a student thesis film looking for a dp for $150 a day. But hey they are renting a viper and would like a dp with experience on that camera. Oh and they need an experienced soundman as well for $100 with gear. Wow what a great experience for experienced crew, to be working with a student film maker who is going to make them famous by submitting to all the popular festivals.
 
Wabbit and TVsound... well said, and funny.

Okay... screw it... I'm going to disclose the secret to good location sound! To get good location sound (after you've scouted the location and addressed any impossible deal-breakers)... all you have to do is truly listen... and truly care... and keep the mic as close as you can to the frame line.

That's it... although I've rarely met people who are able to do all of those things for more then a few minutes.


Also... I don't think $400,000 is enough to budget for sound... that guy already said you can save $10 on your graphics budget.
 
MattinSTL said:
Also... I don't think $400,000 is enough to budget for sound... that guy already said you can save $10 on your graphics budget.
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less than 10 bucks. I have supplied the end scene for free:



final.jpg






wabbit said:
Now this is some serious LOL here. On a particular sound un-friendly shoot, the boom op and I wrote out a couple page manifesto called, "Diary of the Indy Filmmaker, or Why my Sound Sucks!" and parts of it were almost verbatim what you wrote there. Many times I have been tempted to post it after a particularly rude poster bitching that he can't get the answer he wants to hear ("OK, it's a big secret but this $300 mic is all you need for perfect sound"), but this "diary" is several pages long and does get a little condescending at times...which for some producers would simply be tit for tat.


Cheers
Click to expand...


I'de like to read it. Maybe an illustrated .pdf?
 
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MattinSTL... Flame on :violent5: Because of your post, I cant even imagine the amount of jobs I'm going to lose. You Bastard! How can i afford baby diapers now, when all the $100/week college thesis jobs go away!

Hilarious Matt. But boy are we in for trouble! All the CGI guys are going to be pissed.

Note: I can only imagine how many people ask CGI for favors and freebies as well.
 
TVSound said:
BTW, if you are new to sound and someone actually ever says this to you, take the poo pooer aside and have a nice little chat.
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Some great stuff here guys! I only wish I were new to this biz. I'm the most jaded, grouchy, aggravated, gruffly, SOB on the west coast. 25+ years in the biz, God friggin' help me. :crybaby:

I was kind of responding to the numerous posts I see here regarding $24.95 audio and the illustrious 15 minutes to score, orchestral mock-up, sound design, Foley, ADR and mix, that most seem to get these days.

Funny thing is, audio is STILL the better part of most productions released in the last many years despite all the clowns with a script, power point and some camera gear. :nads:
 
Matt Grunau said:
I'de like to read it. Maybe an illustrated .pdf?
Click to expand...

Maybe someday after a really bad 12+ hour day and I have a few in me I will build up just the right mix of frustration and bad judgement to post it but until then I don't feel throwing that kind of negativity out there will be very constructive.

But as I was saying, TVsound pretty much summarized the Cliff Notes version of it. There is one part that expands on the inner monolog of the guy at TVSound's step 4. Basically it is an attempt to get inside the mind of the person who just spent $7000 to $10,000 on a prosumer camera and lighting package but thinks $500 for sound is reasonable.

What it ultimately boils down to is these guys are shooting themselves in the foot. If they refuse to listen to people who work in the professional as well as budget (budget meaning some $$$ not no $$$) world they will reap the results. It's never fun to watch someone head down a road that you know will lead to failure but either they will learn from their mistakes or find a more stable way of making a living.

As to how this directly affects us, granted the DV revolution has driven dayrates down across the board, but overall the professional gigs have not dimished in quantity. Just have to wade through all the silly "food & credit and/or deferred pay-resume and reel required" gigs that some seem to think is the offer of a lifetime.

(Disclaimer: when I reach another slow point I will switch back to raging against this attitude...I am a hypocrite :) )

Cheers
 
MattinSTL said:
Wabbit and TVsound... well said, and funny.

Okay... screw it... I'm going to disclose the secret to good location sound! To get good location sound (after you've scouted the location and addressed any impossible deal-breakers)... all you have to do is truly listen... and truly care... and keep the mic as close as you can to the frame line.

That's it... although I've rarely met people who are able to do all of those things for more then a few minutes.


Also... I don't think $400,000 is enough to budget for sound... that guy already said you can save $10 on your graphics budget.
Click to expand...

I gotta believe Matt's been doin' the location stuff far FAR longer than I have (one of the BIG reaosns I come here and lurk :beer: ) but oddly still has the patience of a saint.

Man I wish they could bottle that. :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):
 
Matt Grunau said:
less than 10 bucks. I have supplied the end scene for free:



final.jpg









I'de like to read it. Maybe an illustrated .pdf?
Click to expand...

HAHA!! Too funny - spit my coffee right through my nose! I'll have a score, SFX, Foley etc.. by Monday.

p.s. was told the budget for that visual was double six figures and took three weeks BEYOND the six months that was allocated for the entire shoot, scoring, adr, Foley, audio post and and telecine mastering. WAY TO GET AHEAD of the schedule man!
 
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