Facing The Giants

I think what would be cool would a Hollywood type movie (a la budget, resources, noteriety, etc.) but based on a Christian character, story, or message.

I haven't seen Amazing Grace yet, but would like to. From the trailers I've seen, it looks like it does a good job of telling a story, and it just so happens to have a Christian message to it? Or does it? If you have to ask yourself that, then I think it does a good job.

Film making at its core I think, is the art of telling stories. The main goal is to tell a compelling and interesting story that touches people in some way, or at least gets them to think or entertains them. I think that besides the production value, people get turned off by Christian movies becuase they go out of their way to force the message. I think it's better to let the story in itself give the message, that way it doesn't seem like people are being preached to.

There are some great Bible stories that could be told with a heavy SFX budget. The Mummy did a short take on it with the plagues of Egypt. But there could be battles that make Lord of The Rings look like a school yard scuffle. The main stress comes with people lacking the budget to create that. Hollywood doesn't want to pay for it, becuase they don't think it will market well enough to a mainstream audience, and sadly, they're probably right. So we get the lower budget Christian films becuase of that.

But all of us on the DVX site know that it doesn't take a huge budget to make a good movie, just a good story. What we need is more people willing to tell good stories without forcing the Chiristian message, and then possibly more people would be interested in them.
 
A reminder to all the believers on this subject. God doesn't need Hollywood, as a matter of fact He simply chooses to use the small people to do big things according to His book. I fully believe God is moving in the area of cinema, and will raise up some excellent film makers independent of Hollywood and dependent on Him. I enourage all the Chrisitians called to make films, pursue with all you have and don't lean on your own understanding, or logic. Like the people in Facing the Giants, they were small beans but took a step of Faith and it was blessed. Like Brandon said, I can't wait to see the upcoming film makers of our Generation step up and make some God honoring films, but pleeeeaaase pursue with Him leading, after all he is the creator of creativity heh(: He knows what the world needs to hear and how it needs to be said. By the way go to the theatre for Amazing Grace, and for FYI sake it was the same film maker who did Narnia, and is currently working on C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters!
 
Well said... even if I am not making "Christian films" I hope to pursue everything to honor God as a Christian and witness for others. I don't want to always do overtly "Christian films" but no matter what I intend to give God all the glory for what I do.
 
FTG is not a good movie, it is admirable that they pulled it off but if you are not putting it up against other Christian movies but putting it in the general market against other similar movies, it just doesnt hold up. Not close really. I dont think it is fair to lean on the $100k budget, Sony spent over $5mill "fixing" it to make it showable in theaters.

This is the problem with Christian media right now, it generally, though it has the best of intentions, is a bad, Jesus-ized copy of the world. Kind of like Christian rock music 15-20 years ago. Why not make GREAT movies that have a natural message instead of taking generic stories and forcing a message and an agenda?

Critics and the general audience alike loved Napoleon Dynamite, nobody said it was good for a mormon movie. Most people dont even realize that movie is a mormon movie. Christians could learn a lot from movies like ND...



ash =o)
 
AshG said:
Critics and the general audience alike loved Napoleon Dynamite, nobody said it was good for a mormon movie. Most people dont even realize that movie is a mormon movie. Christians could learn a lot from movies like ND...

I don't think the analogy holds up. Napoleon Dynamite wasn't a Mormon (Latter-Day Saint for anyone offended by "Mormon") movie in any sense. That's like saying Raiders of the Lost Ark is a Jewish film. Just because the director of a film ascribes himself to a particular religion doesn't make his work religious based. Napoleon Dynamite was a secular film. It's not trying to teach anything, unless the great moral message is that awesome dance moves will make you popular and that even if you like a girl you shouldn't let her beat you at tetherball.
 
Been on the board for many months now and this is the first thread I have seen about Christian movies. That was my main reason for purchasing an HVX-
to practice, do some smaller projects and then do a feature "faith based film" as I like to call them. The cheese factor is a definite concern but hard to avoid for a filmmakker who is passionate about his Christianity. It is a fine line he must walk.

Facing the Giants was the second film by the Keaton brothers of Sherwood Baptist Church in Albany, GA. The first was Flywheel, done a couple of years earlier. It was done with an XL-1 and homemade lights, dollies, etc. It has a somewhat high cheese factor so non believers may be turned off - but believers will find it a great story about a used car dealer who "gets right" and returns every dime he ever ripped off back to his customers. There are some great side stories and a couple of salesmen who should get emmys for comedy acting. I think Blockbuster and Netflix have it.

Anyway, Christian Filmmaking is a great subject - maybe worthy of a category of its own on DVX user?
 
krestofre said:
I don't think the analogy holds up. Napoleon Dynamite wasn't a Mormon (Latter-Day Saint for anyone offended by "Mormon") movie in any sense. That's like saying Raiders of the Lost Ark is a Jewish film. Just because the director of a film ascribes himself to a particular religion doesn't make his work religious based. Napoleon Dynamite was a secular film. It's not trying to teach anything, unless the great moral message is that awesome dance moves will make you popular and that even if you like a girl you shouldn't let her beat you at tetherball.
PHP:

It is not highly publicized but much if the financing came thru the mormon church and the movie had to uphold their standards and conform to their beliefs. You proved my point, you missed all that, it was subtle. Christian movies in the mainstream should be the same way...


ash =o)
 
AshG said:
It is not highly publicized but much if the financing came thru the mormon church and the movie had to uphold their standards and conform to their beliefs. You proved my point, you missed all that, it was subtle. Christian movies in the mainstream should be the same way...


ash =o)

Uh, dude, the movie was entirely financed by MTV. Now maybe the original Napoleon 10 min short, but definitely not the movie
 
I am confident that Smuggler's Ransom will be on Christian bookstore shelves sometime in the near future :) BTW: I am loving this discussion!
 
AshG said:
PHP:
It is not highly publicized but much if the financing came thru the mormon church and the movie had to uphold their standards and conform to their beliefs. You proved my point, you missed all that, it was subtle. Christian movies in the mainstream should be the same way...

shawneous said:
Uh, dude, the movie was entirely financed by MTV. Now maybe the original Napoleon 10 min short, but definitely not the movie


Both are untrue. The short film "Peluca" that Napoleon Dynamite was based on was shot with $500 that was given to Hess as a grant from BYU (the college Hess was attending). If you're counting that as LDS Church money, then sure, they funded it. But from that short Hess raised $400,000 himself and shot Napoleon Dynamite. He took the film to Sundance and MTV picked it up there. The only thing that MTV added to the production was the opening song with credit sequence and the Wedding ending at the end of the film.

This is kind of a thread-jacking at the moment, but I hope that I'll be forgiven in pursuit of setting the record straight.
 
Been thinking on this a little further...

Are there any movies with a 'message' that don't turn out to be cheese? We're saying that these Christian films feel more like after-school specials. But doesn't every movie on Lifetime Originals have the same sort of overly-sappy feel to it? I think it was touched on earlier...to make a movie with a message, it must first be thought of as a movie. The message (although it is the reason for making the movie) must be secondary, otherwise you end up with cheese.

The reason we're talking about FtG is NOT because it's a good movie. It's because of the process that was taken to make it. A church funded a movie - that's HUGE! And the movie does show some signs of talent. Again, it's drawbacks are that it has an amateur-ish cast and crew; and it's independent...it doesn't have that 'big' movie feel to it.

I've tinkered with a couple ideas for a Christian movie...the thing I get stuck with is thinking about a goal for the movie...who's the audience? Are you trying to draw believers, or are you trying to use the movie as a message to unbelievers?

I really like what Brandon has done with Smuggler's, and there are more true-to-life ideas out there today that would make a good drama...for instance I just read this morning about a teacher in Oregon who got fired for some suggestions he made that connected evolution to Planned Parenthood to Nazi Germany.

:)
 
i have an on topic/off kilter questions for the Christians here -


APOCALYPTO SPOILER BELOW!!!! Select to read:

at the end of
Apocalypto when our hero runs out on the the beach revealing Columbus coming ashore (a stunning ending IMHO) - Which of the two meanings did you derive

1. "Well if our hero thought he wasn't F*^ked before, he is now - here comes the white man"

OR

2. Here come the catholics - now they're saved.

I think the situation could be read both ways - me, I took the former meaning.

I only ask as Mr. Gibson has strong christian leanings and I wondered at his intent.
 
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Mike McNeese said:
Are there any movies with a 'message' that don't turn out to be cheese? We're saying that these Christian films feel more like after-school specials. But doesn't every movie on Lifetime Originals have the same sort of overly-sappy feel to it? I think it was touched on earlier...to make a movie with a message, it must first be thought of as a movie. The message (although it is the reason for making the movie) must be secondary, otherwise you end up with cheese.

The reason we're talking about FtG is NOT because it's a good movie. It's because of the process that was taken to make it. A church funded a movie - that's HUGE! And the movie does show some signs of talent. Again, it's drawbacks are that it has an amateur-ish cast and crew; and it's independent...it doesn't have that 'big' movie feel to it.

Have any of you seen John Paul II, with the former pontiff played by Cary Elwes and John Voigt? A very, very powerful film with name actors playing The Man and a semi-big budget. Probably one of the best Christian films I have seen.
 
About Apocalypto...I would say #1. Not sure what Gibson was going for with that, but my take on it is that it's a foreshadowing of how the future's gonna be...and for them it don't look so hot. If Gibson were going for #2, I'd say he's being a little hypocritical.

Nope, I've NOT seen John Paul II...wasn't it a made-for-TV movie? Which brings to mind...there are quite a lot of movies and TV episodes out there where a character is sort of brought back to his/her roots in religion...I think of just about every other episode of the X-Files where Scully remembers how much God means to her, despite all that she was experiencing.
 
Like I said, I have some intimate knowledge of the subject and it has not been highly publicized, nor do they want it to be. Of the money Hess raised, much of it was thru the church and church connections. Let's leave it at that.

There are a couple companies that are going to be making Christian or "faith-based" films. One that I work with and actually office at, Impact Pictures, has an 18 movie deal with Weinstein.

I am working on a doc that is getting interest from many big studios. It is a controversial look at Christian rock music, Dogtown meets Jesus Camp if you will. I cant post the promo video but if you email me, I can show it to you, if interested. There is huge buzz going on about it now so.....we'll see...



ash =o) AshG@BleedIntoOne.com
 
Has anyone seen "Luther" with Joseph Fines? It's about the life of Martin Luther. That movie walks the line between Christian movie and bio-pic.

Which brings up a new question: Does any movie with Christianity in it have the right to be called a Christian movie? What makes a movie a christian movie? There are plenty of movies that have scenes take place in a church, or mention God, but don't focus on it or try to convey a message. I think that Luther is more of a bio pic than a Christian film. Sure, there's Christianity all over that film, but that's becuase it's about the life of a dedicated Christian man. There was no in your face message about what you should or shouldn't do, it just shows the character of the man Luther and what he did and went up against.
 
MiataFilmSomething said:
Has anyone seen "Luther" with Joseph Fines? It's about the life of Martin Luther. That movie walks the line between Christian movie and bio-pic.

Which brings up a new question: Does any movie with Christianity in it have the right to be called a Christian movie? What makes a movie a christian movie? There are plenty of movies that have scenes take place in a church, or mention God, but don't focus on it or try to convey a message. I think that Luther is more of a bio pic than a Christian film. Sure, there's Christianity all over that film, but that's becuase it's about the life of a dedicated Christian man. There was no in your face message about what you should or shouldn't do, it just shows the character of the man Luther and what he did and went up against.

just stumbled across this thread today... very exciting. :laugh:

i think, unfortunately, what makes a Christian movie (to most people) is the stereotypical cheesy preachiness, pounding the Bible over your head, the world is a happy place when you have Jesus -- kinda stuff. most Christian movies (that I've seen) were made either to condemn and save non-Christians or to sell to Christians. for the first group, those movies were really preachy and cheesy. for the second group (the ones made to sell to Christians), those movies had very little (and even "little" is being nice) put into it... as in story, talent, budget, quality, etc. as long as they were "Christian" and didn't have any sex, swearing, or other "Hollywood attributes", they were good Christian movies.

whew. yeah. let me catch my breath.

i'm still in highschool, but i want to do SOMETHING to ditch the Christian movie genre... in the way that people wouldn't watch a movie and go, "that was SUCH a Christian movie". i believe that there are quite some talented and dedicated Christians out there who can really do a lot in the filming industry... so that is definitely exciting. i guess i'm a dreamer (well, aren't all filmmakers? :)), but i hope to--one day--work in the filming industry, making EXCELLENT movies that leave people with a message of Truth. like most people tell me, "you need a lot of prayer." haha. hmmm... do they mean that i need prayer to stop dreaming or prayer to be able to make those movies? :laugh:
if God really does exist, and if He really is who He says He is [and who we say He is (think of all the praise and worship songs we sing in church)], then we really need to start making movies that will bring honor and glory to Him. rather than have people label a movie as "Christian"... just because it is horrifically made.

is it just me, or are all the faith film departments that are starting (like in FOX, for exe.) a sign that more and more people WANT to have good, wholesome movies (not that they are a new breed or anything)? so if Hollywood isn't going to cater to these people, does that mean that they have to settle for those "Christian movies"?! hopefully not. the need and want IS there... now there just needs to be filmmakers who are unwilling to compromise in the areas of message and quality. hollywood compromises the message, "Christian movies" compromise the quality...

brandon, i just watched the smuggler's ransom trailer... is it going to screen anywhere in new york? i'd love to watch it.


compromise yeah. that's my (winded) take on Christian movies... sorry if i sounded preachy... ;-) if you guys haven't yet, "the roaring lambs" makes a great and inspirational read. it is simply amazing. :-)


~ evangeline
 
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