Best program for sound with apple G-5 is?

jcgardiner said:
I hate to say this but since you have already invested $60,000 plus into your project you will be better served to export your audio tracks via omf or even aiff/wav files to a professional audio engineer. Truth be told you can have the highest end Pro Tools set-up with a professionally designed studio and still produce crappy sound. Without a pro running the gear you will be unhappy with the results.

Perhaps on your next project where you don't have as much on the line you can play around and get yourself familiar with whatever program you choose. I assume since you are a Mac that you are using FCP Studio. Might as well start with Soundtrack Pro....this will give you a good start... Although Logic is a super powerful program the learning curve is very steep.

Remember this... audio is very much a black art not unlike a true colorist. It really takes a trained ear to get a mix just right.

You may want to check out the Tascam FW-1082...it comes with Cubase LE....but most importantly it works seemlessly with FCP, and Soundtrack Pro. I just picked one up for under $500. Check out Guitar Center online they were having a clearance on them last week for $499 if not still on sale you can get it for $599...If nothing else it gives you the best way outside of a dedicated capture card to monitor your audio.

Don't take this post the wrong way...I am sure you have all the capabilities in the world...For big projects I just choose to leave the audio to the pros....For other projects I'll just wing it.
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I wish I had all the capabilities in the world and a great studio, but I don't. I will go to the local Guitar Center and check out your suggestion. We have FCP studio with Soundtrack pro. We are looking at logic 7 because of all the sound effects, the ability to reproduce most any musical instriment and the loops it has built into it, and if I'm not mistaken it will fill the functions of the Tascam as far as importing the sound into FCP and mixing it. My musicians say they can work with the program and get what we need out of it, but as the music is the last thing we need to do I will be taking my time on this as the shoot isn't until this June and off and on through the summer and fall.

By the way what would be a ball park figure for bringing in an professional audio engineer? I'll look at that too.

David
 
I think getting a good way to monitor your audio out of fcp is an essential part. I would find some type of interface (like the tascam) that can give you balanced audio out of fcp and soundtrack. I am looking to upgrade my krk rp5s with the blue sky media desk ($500). You will need something decent for that too. If your room is not acousticlly treated, you will need to do something there. There are a lot of things to consider if you are going to do this yourself. I don't envy you. I wish you luck with your decision.
 
Are you looking for a music composition app, or a sound design app? I know often programs can do both, but I still consider them separate tasks. If you're looking for more sound effects than comes with STP, you could use an online archive like sounddogs instead of a different program. If you hire a post house to do your FX, they will have a huge library, and/or depending on your budget, foley some of it themselves.

If you're looking more for music comp you can hand over to musicians, I'd look more towards Finale, Sibelius, Nuendo, or Logic. These apps are written with a musician in mind, instead of an audio engineer. ProTools has been focusing a lot of their feature addtions lately towards composition, but you have to purchase their soft synths separately. You mentioned getting a keyboard... depending on the quaility, that may have patches that are good enough to record back into STP.
 
Shawn makes a good point here...You are essentially looking at three seperate issues here. 1. having the right way to monitor your sound from FCP....Since you are shooting with the HVX and I assume some flavor of HD you will not be able to use the standard way of running audio out through a DV deck or camera....you may want to look at the aforementioned Tascam FW-1082 that can power your studio monitors or the Matrox system or a dedicated capture/monitor card (for your purposes since your shooting P2 you have no need for the capture function of these AJA/Blackmagic cards...but it does give you the best solution for Monitoring your video and audio not to mention a way for you to layback to DVCPROHD or HDCAM.

2. Is that you have the issue of your musicians being able to record/create your soundtrack. One would think that your musicians already have someway of recording their tracks...if not then yes they could use Logic but to be honest you got alot of Logics power built into Soundtrack Pro...In fact many of the effects in Soundtrack Pro come straight from Logic. As far as loops Soundtrack comes well equipt with loops but if its loops your after why hire musicians??? Is your soundtrack going to be put together with just a composer or a group of musicians??? If you have musicians you may be best served to have them record in an actual studio. Usual rates for that will run you about $75 an hour.

3. The actual mix where it all comes together...this is where the pro really earns his/her money...Price on a decent Audio Engineer would depend on alot of things??? How long the show is...Do you need a stem mix or just full mix....will there be a need to build an eloborate FX track??? so really hard to say...

Heck for your music if it is simply a guy on an Edirol Keyboard they could probably even get away with using Garage Band....But seriously look into exploring the power of Soundtrack Pro...While its not a Pro Tools Killer it will do most thing that you need and you already own it.

But with any of these programs be it Soundtrack Pro, Pro Tools, Nuendo, Logic, Digital Performer and the list goes on they all can do similar things but you need a frontend (like the Tascam FW-1082, Protools digi 003, Motu 828 or Traveler, Mackie Onyx FW)to get that info into and out of your G5...The nice thing about the Tascam is that it is a FW interface and a DAW controller and mixer all in one and it is made to work with FCP and Soundtrack. If you dont have something like this then you will have to do your mix controlling a virtual channel strip with your mouse or pay extra cash for a Mackie HUI or similar DAW controller (which can get pricey) and one last note is get yourself a nice pair of studio monitors. I use Genelec's but you could go with a Mackie pair don't mix with headphones.

Hope this helps

JG
 
Pardon me if I sound rude but the fact that you are asking these questions pretty much means you should not be doing your own sound. It's not that simple and you have your needs all mixed up.
First you have FCP monitoring. That's hardware. Protools is limited in what hardware it can use but that is about the only software issue you might have with hardware. The line out of the G5 is going to be so so but 90% of the picture editors directors and producers in the world wont hear the difference. Your picture edit room is not going to be a good place to listen to sound anyway. Get some decent not too pricey computer speakers and have a good time.

Second is music composition. Are you a composer/ musician? I'm guessing not because of your logic comments. Your composer should have a system, have them use their own system.

Third is sound post. That really needs to be done by someone who knows what they are doing. Those people should also have their own system.

"loops" and FX. Don't buy software based on included content. That is just backwards. There are places to get sounds and there are people who record create fx all day. It doesn't matter what collection you get you will need something that isn't in it. Also a composer should have most of the "loop" they need and if not are going to know where they can get what they want. Sound editors have libraries, some times huge libraries. Their libraries are almost definitely bigger and better than anything you can buy. Hire them.

ANd you wont know what sounds you need till you have a film.

As to budget, 5-10% of your total should go to sound post. If your below that you should can the person who did the budget because they hosed you.

SK




David_M_Payne said:
I wish I had all the capabilities in the world and a great studio, but I don't. I will go to the local Guitar Center and check out your suggestion. We have FCP studio with Soundtrack pro. We are looking at logic 7 because of all the sound effects, the ability to reproduce most any musical instriment and the loops it has built into it, and if I'm not mistaken it will fill the functions of the Tascam as far as importing the sound into FCP and mixing it. My musicians say they can work with the program and get what we need out of it, but as the music is the last thing we need to do I will be taking my time on this as the shoot isn't until this June and off and on through the summer and fall.

By the way what would be a ball park figure for bringing in an professional audio engineer? I'll look at that too.

David
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i have mark of the unicorn's (MOTU) digital performer and i've used it to mix several shorts that we've made and i really like it. it's a lot cheaper than the others, at about $500 or so. i considered pro tools, but the fact that you have to use proprietary hardware and you have to buy the expensive DV toolkit to be able to import omfs and use timecode put me off. there was no way we could afford it. digital performer has worked well for what we've done. i have never used protools or nuendo though, so i don't have much of a comparison. and i understand what's being said about compatibility if you're working with other people who use pro tools or may be sending your mix to a post place that uses pro tools. we're not at that level. but anyway, if you need a cheaper solution, check into digital performer. it does surround mixing, imports omf from final cut with no problems, outputs DV to an external monitor, has no track number limitation, and has excellent midi capabilites. i also have a g5, m-audio firewire 410 ($300), and a behringer bcf2000 control surface ($200). it's a pretty nice surround capable post setup for the price.
 
Tim Young said:
...it does surround mixing, imports omf from final cut with no problems, outputs DV to an external monitor, has no track number limitation, and has excellent midi capabilites.
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In a pinch, I suppose you could use DP's OMF import/export tool to migrate sessions between DP and Pro Tools. I'd be curious to run a couple tests and see how much of the metadata is retained.
 
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