Why use a black scrim instead of a silk?

G

Gregg

Well-known member
Googled the terms but can find any good info.

I am looking to buy a 12x12 or 8x8 ft Matthews frame and see a kit that comes with a few different fabrics.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...000&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

• 1- Frame 12' x 12' (3.7 x 3.7m)
• 1- Black Single Scrim Fabric 12' x 12' (3.7 x 3.7m) (319087)
• 1- Black Double Scrim Fabric 12' x 12' (3.7 x 3.7m) (319088)
• 1- Solid Black Fabric 12' x 12' (3.7 x 3.7m) (319089)
• 1- Artificial Silk Fabric 12' x 12' (3.7 x 3.7m) (319000)
• 1- Storage Bag


The silk is one stop so what are the black scrims? And why are they black in stead of white?

Isn't there a problem with shadows since the frame would be blocking some of the sunlight? I guess you just need to frame withing the 12ft area so you avoid the shadows but that seems very limiting.
 
The nets are more like an ND filter, red and green are two and one stop respectively. In application, though they do somewhat, they are not intended to diffuse or otherwise change the quality of the light, just reduce the percentage of transmission.

Gridcloth, polys and silks are diffusion goods. Naturally, being white-ish in color, they reflect a fair amount of light, which brings the transmission number down a stop or two.

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Quote:
Isn't there a problem with shadows since the frame would be blocking some of the sunlight? I guess you just need to frame withing the 12ft area so you avoid the shadows but that seems very limiting.[/quote]

It can happen, but it depends on how it is rigged.. Tall combo stands or overhead roller stands like the "Mombo Combo stand" see. www.msegrip.com
will help set the frame to a decent angle for you. You can also "Break Up" any shadow created by your frame by adding tree branches to your upright stands or the corners of the frame to disguise and soften the hard edge shadow.

The silk is intended to soften the light from say, a sunny day, and get rid of dark eye sockets, and squinting by your subjects. The Nets/fabric scrims, although they do soften the light , but to much, much less effect, are meant to just cut the light by a stop or the double scrim/net..two stops.
The fabric scrims/nets, can also be added to your silk for additional light control.
Using the frame to fire lights from behind is a great way of providing a large , soft source of light. You will wonder how you got along with out it.
I prefer the 12' x 12'ft, especially for outdoor work.. This size can be limiting for interiors however, considering ceiling heights.

EDIT :::I had to answer a phone call while typing this, so I appoligize to Overland for any duplication..
 
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I suggest you also order a fabric for your frame called : GRIFF or griffilon In white.. Great as a giant bounce card. It's black on one side and white on the other.. A must have for outdoor work. Good luck.
P.S. Better order some extra sand bags, and rope as this baby will become a giant sail, and I have seen these things take out an actor or two and hit the camera because of the wind. Anchor these babies down with rope as well. Trust me on this...
 
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Ok so the black scrims just cut the amount of light while the silks cut light but also create a larger and softer light source?
 
I sometimes prefer nets when dealing with overhead sunlight. Silks/Grid Cloth often diffuse the light way too much for my liking. For me sunlight should still look like it's coming from a direction and be a little punchy and nets allow that while taking it down a little and softening ever so slightly. I guess the ideal situation is to use silks/grid cloth and then have HMI's to recreate the punch.
 
bcheong said:
I sometimes prefer nets when dealing with overhead sunlight. Silks/Grid Cloth often diffuse the light way too much for my liking. For me sunlight should still look like it's coming from a direction and be a little punchy and nets allow that while taking it down a little and softening ever so slightly. I guess the ideal situation is to use silks/grid cloth and then have HMI's to recreate the punch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree as well.
If you can possible get your hands on a 24"x36" set of nets and a silk(or the 18x24" set) and simply "audition " each of these different fabrics over the head of your subject, you will get an immediate reference as to what to use for your particular set up. A double net might work better than the silk on one given day or hour, the silk the next...
 
can you guys recomend some place to buy some large (12'x 12'or bigger) nets? I am curious to what type of materials your nets are made of and the pattern of the threads.
 
I wouldn't call it a black bounce card, but a 4'x4' or larger piece of black fabric or board will give a "Negative fill". This will remove fill or bounce light, producing in some cases, an edgier or more dramatic look. Particularily on bright sets and outdoor work.
 
Watch out for using a single and double at the same time. It's easy to get moire (cross hatched pattern from the net material) pattern casting on your subject.
 
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