How would you light this bar ? (video)

ShamrockFilms

ShamrockFilms

Well-known member
We are shooting a scene inside of a bar. Should we blast it with a mix of arri lights and praticals? Here's a video clip of the place. We have day and night scenes here, but I'm mainly concerned about the night scenes right now. This is a gangster film, so it would have a lot of hardlight shadows and smoke in the room.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oecvy_AGBlA




 
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Sorry about my early comments before you even posted the link...Just kidding.
Anyway, is this the time of day your planning on shooting this, or was this just your location scout, and your shooting at night ?
 
Duh, I can read, just need more caffeine.
[SIZE=+0]It would be nice to see this place at night when the house lights are on at normal settings. Lots of bar scenes have a few 2 or 4 ft banks of Kino's under the bar to light the bartender and lights behind the bottles. You can then use additional kinos to light talent at the bar.Without watching the video again, I don't remember the ceilings too well, but perhaps you can clamp 150's or 300's or 650's from the ceilings for backlights and talent at the bar. Smaller 150's or even 300 watt fresnels with light diffusion could also be used from a slightly high angle, or even low, for that matter, to side light some of your gangsters faces. A few chinese lanterns with 250-500 watt lights could bring up ambiance a little, so there is detail in the shadows. If you want to show off the smoke in the room, hard backlight is the way to go. If you have enough time prior to your actual shoot date, I 'd take a couple of chinese lanterns down to the bar at night, and try them at different heights(Near the ceiling and on the floor- for up light) You can place lights out the windows as well, but at night, I wouldn't expect to see much here unless you gelled them slightly blue, or established a light source in the parking lot prior to or after your interior bar footage. If you sit an actor near a window(at night) some light coming thru the window might be nice, but very subtle. You could even motivate this window with light, by having a car pull up near the building, with it's lights on, like it's pulling in or leaving the parking lot.[/SIZE]
Or have a grip outside with a mirror on a stand, and a light hitting that. Have him rotate the mirror slowly, so it hits your actor occasionaly, or just once or twice.
I see the bathroom as a slight challenge, because of standard ceiling height. But if in a stall, a kino above should be suffienct, or just a chinese lantern. hanging a couple of bare 60 watt bulbs from the ceiling would probably work fine for this bathroom. gritty,dirty.
 
Hey Shamrock,
So I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to lighting, but I did some test shots the other day, and boy!!! the lighting depends so much on location, but also on how you are framing your shots. That's a big room.
I think for other people to really give you a better idea of how to light in there, it would be best, if you could draw up a floor plan of the place, and draw your shot list on there. (you know where your actors are, where the camera is, if its a close up, etc...)
My best advice is bring as many lights as you can (soft lights and hard lights) and spend some good time doing test shots.

I'm sure some people in here will give you much better advice than this, but I think if you give them more info they can help you even better.
good luck.
 
I just got finished looking at your "Townies" website and additional footage,tests and blogs. I really like what I see, and I wish you all great luck.
The "Betting parlour" is cool and believeable, but I would add a few more tv's, with other games going on as well. Your talent looks great, and I'm sure you'll have a blast shooting this. If I was in the Boston area, I would volunteer to work for you.
 
Thanks Filmat11 and Siniarch.

This is a documentary/reality style movie and my goal is to use mainly praticals. What if I shut all the overhead lights off and set each table with battery operated lamps or candles? I have to be careful not to make the place look fancy though.
 

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Sounds like a plan to me. You should bring in at least a few small lights for small keys and edge lights. Your battery powered table lamps will/might be quite warm...which might be nice. a 2 foot -4 bank kino would be nice for key from a slightly low angle.. Good luck on your film.
 
I guess I could try and find lamps that match the silver lighting fixtures hanging over the pool table.

I don't have any pictures of the bar becaues there was patrons there when I was scouting. But I will likely add the same lamps on the table to the bar and the lights like recommended behind the booze. I'm assuming I should have a light over the bartender so he isnt left in the dark.

There's a great painting on the rear wall too. I was thinking of showcasting it and adding some background spot lights. I can drap an Ameircan flag on one side and Irish on the other. This is supposed to be an Irish bar/social club.
 

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These are all good ideas, but you won't know exactly until you get a chance to go there and test the lights. If they let you maybe you can go in the morning before they open to the public and maybe block out the windows (to simulate night) and do your test.
 
Thanks. I can actually get in there at night and do it after they close. Just trying to figure out what I'll need to buy/bring with me.
 
I am just learning lighting myself, but I think you are going to need to bring up the ambient light in the room to get the natural look you are lookinf for. Practicals alone are going to make your images look flat and dark I think. also, are they using Flourescent lights in the ceiling there? you may have a flicker issue and I am not sure what color temp they are.

Bouncing some light off the cieling may be a good way. sin makes a good suggestion as to figure out the blocking bc there is fall off (with a kino flo particulary and the smaller tungsten) you need to figure out how close you will put the lights to the actors if they are moving around. One more thing to keep in mind, If you are using the bar as the power source, also figure out how much wattage you will be pulling bc you don't want to blow the guys fuse box. It looks like an older building. I'm a rookie so this is just my 2 cents.

A great place in boston for lighting rental and suggestions http://rulebroadcast.com/

for sound www.talamas.com.
 
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bosindy said:
I am just learning lighting myself, but I think you are going to need to bring up the ambient light in the room to get the natural look you are lookinf for. Practicals alone are going to make your images look flat and dark I think. also, are they using Flourescent lights in the ceiling there? you may have a flicker issue and I am not sure what color temp they are.

Bouncing some light off the cieling may be a good way. sin makes a good suggestion as to figure out the blocking bc there is fall off (with a kino flo particulary and the smaller tungsten) you need to figure out how close you will put the lights to the actors if they are moving around. One more thing to keep in mind, If you are using the bar as the power source, also figure out how much wattage you will be pulling bc you don't want to blow the guys fuse box. It looks like an older building. I'm a rookie so this is just my 2 cents.

A great place in boston for lighting rental and suggestions http://rulebroadcast.com/

for sound www.talamas.com.
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There are Flourescent lights in the ceiling but I'm shutting them all off. It will be way too bright with those on. They'd look okay in an office building or something, but not a bar.

We'll be using a 2,000 watt generator with a 100ft extension chord running outside.

Rent? Yikes! I am the anti-renter. I prefer to own everything. I'm actually looking for a cheap 3-point lighting kit if you can recommend a place for it.
 
I think the 150''s are good for rim lighting but too small for a key and fill. maybe something like this at $65/day http://www.rule.com/productDesc.cfm?productID=217&categoryID=8. You can buy some 1 inch Styrofoam at Home depot and use them to bounce additional light. What registers to the eye and what to the camera are two different things, and you really need to expose properly. The HVx has a marker not sure about the DVX. Again, there are people here far more qualified than me who may have better ideas.

From what I hear you can negotiate with Rule and may be able to get the day rate for a full weekend.
 
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During the day it would be nice to just use the natural light pouring in those windows. You'd have to use some nice glass to get shallow dof, to sort of erase those terrible white and panel backgrounds. If you shot into the light you could get some nice contrast from the glare on the tables and backlight figures , make them look hard and cold. At night I guess go with the lamps, it would sort of look medievil like everyone has a little fire at their table.
 
Thanks mathew. Here's what the place looks like at night. We shot a rehearsal there. I only got the back of the bar in this shot, but I realized that the wall sconces work really well with the ceiling fluorescent lights shut off. I think the sconces and the mix of the table lamps should work well.

Adult language:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIaBmle_N30
 
The ceiling is a major challenge

The ceiling is a major challenge

The art director in me says this place sux as a location with absolutely no redeeming qualities. Its not the kind of place that would inspire me to choose it as a location for a shoot. The dang place has a cold sterile feel...thanks in part to the low ceiling. I shudder at the thought of drinking there...cough cough... Now that I've probably ripped the only Bar that was kind enough to allow you to shoot there....let's work with it.

The ceiling looks too low to use Chinese lanterns or Kino's, or hang anything but small practicals. (And in a bar I'm surprisde that the ceiling is white, not black.) It doesn't sound like big soft light like a Chinese lantern fits with the mood you are trying to inspire either. (If it's supposed to be a dark dingy bar.) Think about where natural light comes from in that bar at night....and try to enhance that using (small, harsh) floor fixtures. Give the shot depth but don't overlight. Remember...you're going to show this place in the daytime too...so whatever you show at night has to make sense to the viewer for the daytime shots too. The color of the lights are important as well.

Backlights are naturally motivated by coke machines, streetlights, the moon, passing trains, windows, practicals, lights behind the bar, etc. Find those natural sources that will appear in the shot, match their color and motivate all of your light from those sources. The fridge in the kitchen is an aswome opportunity...if you have an actor interrupted while he has the fridge door open, it can serve as a light source for the scene. Add light outside the kitchen window or a lighted clock or someting...(neon beer signs are too bright usually) and you're there.

Previous suggestions of night time lights outside the windows, cars etc., are spot on. Depending on where you put the talent...they could be your key lights.

Watch a few episodes of The Sopranos.... I challenge you to find a scene that even looks lit....the key to great lighting is to not draw attention to the lighting. And of course that's always easier said than done.
 
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