The best 35mm adapter I've seen so far

I will have to say, for a static adaptor, that is one piece of good work. Imagine if that screen is vibrated, well, I think it will beat most other adaptors. Good job.
 
Yeah, just like I expected. It-s like I said, fellas. A matter of personal opinion, choice, taste. Thank God we live in a free country (I do at least), otherwise I feel that many on this forum would have been shot in the head on their knees on a public square for having a mind of their own (I probably would be long gone by now). God forbid someone defies the system and goes against the standards. Now that I think of it, who was the imbecile who said the earth is round and not square. We should kill that son of *****.

Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe the so called pasty look you are referring to is Ettore s personal choice? Till this very day there's people saying that bleach by pass is an abomination.

I personally think (wait don"t shoot me just yet!) that this adapter"s sharpness is only comparable to the G35"s (my personal favorite along with this one). As for the pasty footage (which I do not know if it is personal or not) I think this could be overcome with on camera settings...at least on the HVX, the dvx, the A1 and all other with extensive image control options.

Anyway, I have spoken my mind against the majority, you may take me to my cross now if you will. Please, go easy on the face.
 
hold on ... where's that bag of nails ... here we go ... :)

(I DID take into consideration that this could be a "choice" - if you want to make color correction like this in your movies fine, but this "choice" limits the contrast range and keeps one from making any worthwhile assesment about the adaptor - drop it in your scopes in FCP if you don't believe me, then we can take opinion right out if it).

first off ... that IS NOT a bleach bypass look

a bleach bypass look is a HIGH CONTRAST LOOK

and AGAIN
what is this footage for ... is it to showcase the adaptor? If so, subjective doesn't come into it, it's a bad choice because ...

Jack Daniel Stanley said:
... contrast is important to perceived sharpness. Which makes it an even more mind boggling choice to not have absolute black in your image when you are showcasing a 35mm adaptor.

Maybe it's the camera settings, maybe it's post, but you cannot tell from this footage.
From this footage you would have to assume that the adaptor is severely limited to one stylized look and cannot shoot blacks.
....
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So yeah - I did consider that it might be his aesthetic choice.

Jack Daniel Stanley said:
... maybe it's post ....
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but to say this is an EXAMPLE of the BEST 35MM adaptor footage, then I say, before buying or endorsing or clapping my hands - show me that it can actually shoot something near broadcast standards - which the blacks aren't.

IF you said, hey look at this cool "faded old film effect" then I would say, yeah cool, more power to you.

But you didn't. You said here is the best 35mm adaptor footage ever achieved by man.

If I wanted everything I shot to look like I just spilled my milk all over the lens then I would rush out and buy one.

But the simple fact is -- ALL TASTE AND OPINION AND COLOR CORRECTION "CHOICES" ASIDE. This footage does not show correct color and contrast through the full range of lights and darks and there is TONS UPON TONS UPUN REEMS UP TOMES UPON STACKS OF FOOTAGE OUT THERE FROM OTHER 35MM ADAPTORS THAT DOES.

If you don't believe me (or your eyes) drop the footage into FCP and look at in on the scopes and wave forms and YOU WILL SEE NO BLACK.

Or you can take a still into Photo Shop and hit "Auto Levels" and you will get the adjustment that I made.

STYLIZED INDIVIDUAL CHOICE ----> FINE.

BUT AS AN EXAMPLE OF BEST EVER - IT'S SEVERLY, POORLLY, HORRIBLEY, LIMITED because there ain't no black!

For one thing you cannot really tell at this resolution how sharp it is and again - you've shown us examples where the nearest black is grayish brown ...

So EVEN IF this guy just put this up as home footage experimenting with a particular look, you brought it here as an EXAMPLE of the BEST, not a WORK OF ART or an experiment in LOW CONTRAST. It does not show a full range of function.

If you purchased an HVX (or any camera) and that was the richest black it shot then it would be considered defective and you would get your money back. PERIOD.

 
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I never said it is the best adapter made by man. Since the beginning I made it very clear that this was an example of what I (my personal opinion, not an universal truth) think to be the best out there (along with the G35) for my needs. I don't like the faded look but I do believe it was his personal choice and that if I was to use it I would do it differently.

An example to how my point is valid is that many people agree with me.

I don't make the adapter nor have I bought shares on the market, I'm just sharing information and people can make up their own minds.

P.S I know what a bleach by pass is (saving private ryan, traffic, etc) but I mentioned it only with the intention to exemplify a new common look that many people had a hard time accepting (when it first came out many film purists criticized it because it was not the standard)...but that doesn't mean it is not a valid look for expressing what you want to express. The same goes for the look Ettore went for.
 
Last time.
What is this footage for?
Expressing an artistic idea?
Or showing what the adaptor can do?

All your arguments defending the footage you posted as the "best adaptor you've seen" keep going back to artistic choice, which has nothing to do with how well the adaptor works or doesn't.

You can say Ettore got the look he wanted until you are blue in the face. Great. That look makes judgeing the adaptor impossible (something you would think would be part of a thread entiled "the best adaptor I've seen") and doesn't have a darn thing to do with the title or topic of this thread as you set it out to be, which again, one would thinnk had to do with judging a great looking adapter.

So I will just assume that you mis titled the thread and it should've instead said "Some really nice looking footage".

To which I would have said, looks a little low contrast for my taste. And that would be the end of it. And that's the end of it, at least for me, now.

Enjoy your adaptor. I hope you can get blacks out of it. I guess you've seen some other footage somewhere that assures you of that fact. If so I'd love to see it.
 
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I agree with Rawfa - I think its among the best adapter footage I've seen also. I, for my part would love to see larger footage. I suspect also that some pretty nice curves work has been done to compress the highlight range giving it a more filmic feel.

I had a tinker with SGPro stills on their site :

http://waynekinney.iforumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=147&mforum=waynekinney

and was very pleased with the results sharpnesswise - please note that these are HiDef grabs taken from an FX1 - so much more critical (if you shrink them to the size of Ettore's footage they look pretty good.)

To our friend JDS above - right now, the most prevalent look in commercials is lifted blacks - giving the image a more pastel feel - crushing went out a couple of years ago. it's great that you like it - but there's many ways to skin a cat - nothing is right or wrong - it's all opinion).
 
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jamestmather said:
Seems to me that Jack doesn't like people who disagree with his opinions
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That's horseshi*.

I don't like it when people say this is the best ADAPTOR footage ever and when there is a non opinion based technical flaw they defend it as an artistic choice.

An artistic choice is fine.

An opinion is "I like this".

EVEN "this looks the sharpest I've seen"

The fact that these images wouldn't register in black on a wave form monitor is not an opinion.

Because you cannot see that performance and it is endemic in all the footage you cannot judge the adaptor. That is not an opinion.

Makes no difference if you like the footage or not. It does not show blacks in any of it for whatever reason.

There's opinion and there's ... well ... no poo pooing blacks in the image.

What do you guys not get about this inherent flaw in logic??????????????????????????

The thread says "best adaptor seen" not "CC we like."

None of the footage shows a basic technical need for any piece of film or video optic gear.

And JAMES ... if you want to make it personal ... it'll get that way ... real quick.

Someone make a LOGICAL argument about how you can evaluate a the technical quality of a piece of gear with footage that doesn't show an entire range of our vision or what SD and HD cameras are capable of recording.

That's not opinion buddy.

"I like it" = opinion.
"There''s no poo pooing blacks in this" is a fact.
 
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I think that

A - A lot of people in the forum have gone blind
B - There is some serious discrepancies on monitor calibration all around
C - Live and let live

Man, I posted the footage. I really like it and so did many people. You don't like it? Tough love my friend. Your point is dully noted and everybody here knows where you stand. I have more to do with my time than trying to convince people about something I have no intention of convincing. All I did was to share info and opinion. You have a problem with this thread? Have one of the mods delete it. Otherwise I have nothing else to say to you.

Jesus Christ, I never thought people could make such a fuzz about nothing.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
That's horseshi*.

I don't like it when people say this is the best ADAPTOR footage ever and when there is a non opinion based technical flaw they defend it as an artistic choice.

An artistic choice is fine.

An opinion is "I like this".

EVEN "this looks the sharpest I've seen"

The fact that these images wouldn't register in black on a wave form monitor is not an opinion.

Because you cannot see that performance and it is endemic in all the footage you cannot judge the adaptor. That is not an opinion.

Makes no difference if you like the footage or not. It does not show blacks in any of it for whatever reason.

There's opinion and there's ... well ... no poo pooing blacks in the image.

What do you guys not get about this inherent flaw in logic??????????????????????????

The thread says "best adaptor seen" not "CC we like."

None of the footage shows a basic technical need for any piece of film or video optic gear.

And JAMES ... if you want to make it personal ... it'll get that way ... real quick.

Someone make a LOGICAL argument about how you can evaluate a the technical quality of a piece of gear with footage that doesn't show an entire range of our vision or what SD and HD cameras are capable of recording.

That's not opinion buddy.

"I like it" = opinion.
"There''s no poo pooing blacks in this" is a fact.
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Let's take it easy fellas. This is a place of sharing, of enjoyment for many people. There's no need for anyone to get personal.

I'm actually about to ask a mod to close this thread down. All I wanted was to share, not for personal wars to erupt.

How about a nice group hug?
 
I still don't get how people are judging sharpness on such a small version. Did I miss a larger version? I can make some of my test shots with my M2 look a lot sharper when I shrink the frame size down.

Now, I'm not a sharpness freak. I've read a lot of arguments in other threads about sharpness when comparing hi-res grabs and, frankly, it seemed like a lot of picking nits. I just don't see how this footage can be claimed to be really sharp when we're seeing a 320 frame.

Nor did I see anything to make me regret my Brevis order.

But at least this thread has been interesting. :)
 
jamestmather said:
"this looks the sharpest I've seen"


happy now?

Everyones entitled to their opinion. Even you.
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Ecstatic. Too bad the lack of black is not a matter of opinion. (tap tap tap ... hello? is this thing on? Beuller .... Beuller ... anyone?)

James your stuff looks great (I've seen it before now BTW)
You seem, like me, to be a contrast/rich blacks junkie. And I am therefor surprised you are so stoked on this. :huh:

I can't really tell much about the sharpness, though I feel I have seen much sharper, but there does appear to be consistent focus through to the sides of the image and zero vignetting.
 
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Yeah, I like contrast but what I was responding to in the footage was the clarity and lack of diffusion I would associate with adapter footage in general -


The footage exhibits the following IMHO - zero chromatic aberration, the lack of a general "softness" across the frame (diffused look) that pervades adapter footage, no astigmatism to speak of and also better acutance than I am accustomed to seeing with GG adapters - spinning or not.

And thats my opinion.

Crushed blacks are not the be all and end all of adapter evaluation.
 
I don't think crushed blacks have anything to do with adapter evaluation.

But I think the simple ability to render, record, or represent black is kind of an absolute need for a monitor, an adaptor, a chip, an NLE, a camera - anything that records or creates part of the image.

So, I'm not talking about crushed blacks, where you lose a little or a lot of detail in the shadow for a super high contrast look, as you know, and things start bunching up and crushing in the black portion of the waveform monitor ....

I'm talking about the fact that there is no absolute black at all in these images. Not even in the darkest part of the shadows. Not in the jet black plastic knobs on the stove.
lowlight.jpg


How do we therefore know that it's not because the GG is not translucent enough?
 
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I think it's an aesthetic choice. I, for one, like it. It's very contemporary in TV commercials at the moment.

This footage seems perfectly workable to me;

http://www.adrianoribeiro.com/adaptest.htm

and subjectively sharp as a razor - exhibiting qualities I would associate more, in general with, film . I, myself, would like to see larger grabs from it to see if that's merely down to a scaling illusion. The sharpness and lack of halation from the adapter are what interest me.

You can always reintroduce contrast in post - you can't get it back.

Darius Khondji who shot Se7en used a Panaflasher to lighten his Gamma low curve (which would have the effect of lifting the blacks somewhat) and then reintroduced, in the lab, a stock push and CCE silver retention to put contrast back in.

Besides I think the thread has been jacked in favour of a contrast discussion.

After all who was the one who said :

The thread says "best adaptor seen" not "CC we like."
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But also said:

Beyond that these images are unpleasant for me to look at due to their hazy low contrast.
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You don't like the low con aesthetic - fine - but despite your earlier contention that it is not Broadcast Quality - this is inaccurate - beyond chroma legal issues and some guidelines for compression/resolution for specific show formats there generally is no such thing as broadcast legal - TV will put on whatever people will watch - irrespective of format - reference: Jackass.) you could film a Borat TV show on a Nokia and if there was an audience - they'd screen it.

This commercial is one I Picked at random from the-best-ads-on-TV.com

Its shot on 35mm film - yet has a low con look - can those cooke S4s not resolve black levels?

http://www.bestadsontv.com/ad_details.php?id=5122

For me the low con thing is a non issue - I am observing other aspects to the adapter.:thumbup:
 
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Okay phew - he's gone now we can have a constructive discussion.

Rafwa, do you have links to any larger versions of the footage? I'd love to have a look.
 
:)Okay apols all around - group hug, group hug. Forgive, forget.

But one thing I don't like about this adapter Jack - have you noticed how it lightens the blacks?:)

Kidding!!!
 
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