Too much story? Not enough?

MojoTrancer

MojoTrancer

Well-known member
Ok peeps, this is a carryover from the Silent City thread. This film sparked the question, but this debate's been coming up a few of times.

How much story is too little? When does it stop being a story and just a series of pretty pictures? How much of the blanks have to be filled in to satisfy? And also do we expect even more of this from a sci-fi flick? Are we so used to the common practice of inking out every detail of a sci-fi world that we can't accept something more ambiguous or undefined?

Discuss.
 
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I don't think there can be such a thing as too detailed.

As long you don't dwell on it for its own sake at the expense of the story.

But there can never be "too much" story.
 
David Jimerson said:
I don't think there can be such a thing as too detailed.

As long you don't dwell on it for its own sake at the expense of the story.

But there can never be "too much" story.
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But aren't there some films that have way too much going on? too many characters. too many plot points? Wouldn't that be too much story? Not sure if I'm wording that right. But I hope you get my drift.
 
I think you can as Mojo said have too much story, but in film ambiguity kills me... I cannot stand art films... why? Because they're so out there... give me something in the story to ground it.
 
Brandon Rice said:
I think you can as Mojo said have too much story, but in film ambiguity kills me... I cannot stand art films... why? Because they're so out there... give me something in the story to ground it.
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So ambiguity automatically pushes a film into arty territory? Not always.

Let's take an example. I don't know how many of you have seen The Fountain or Pan's Labyrinth. Those are two films (whether they are good or not has been discussed in other threads) that leave a lot up to the viewer. And I think that can be a good thing. So many times the answers we're given in a film disappoint. So why not give us room to answer our own questions?
 
I've seen both films mentioned above...

I loved Pan's Labrynth, and didn't have any questions leaving the theatre... I did not like The Fountain, and I scratched my head leaving the theatre. I appreciated elements of The Fountain, but because I was confused and it was ambiguous, I didn't enjoy it.
 
I think the question depends on motivation. If what's absent leaves me with questions about the motivation behind the events that happen, that's a problem.

A recent example that caused some controversy was Children of Men. Some people felt the ending was ambiguous, or felt that The Human Project wasn't defined enough to have meaning. I felt, however, that it was defined just the right amount: a shadowy organization that everyone basically agrees is honestly trying to do good. We can relate to the characters in the movie with this knowledge. We know no more or no less than they do. Just: this is our mission, and I hope to hell it's worth it. To me, that's satisfying.

Then you have the other situation, when we the audience know so much less than the characters that their actions lack credibility. This is a problem in science fiction and fantasy particularly, yes. If we as an audience aren't let into the world, don't get to know anything about why it is the way it is, then how can we care about what happens to the characters? How can we have enough information to be able to choose what is a commendable action and what is reprehensible?

If three soldiers are out on patrol, and they are ambushed and die, what does this tell me about the world? It tells me that war takes a terrible toll on human life. Thank you, but this is cliché. If I do not know what these soldiers are fighting for, or even whether they themselves believe in their cause, then I have a hard time relating to them or their situation. If I can't relate to them, I can't get involved in the story.

I think it's as simple as that.
 
Brandon Rice said:
I've seen both films mentioned above...

I loved Pan's Labrynth, and didn't have any questions leaving the theatre... I did not like The Fountain, and I scratched my head leaving the theatre. I appreciated elements of The Fountain, but because I was confused and it was ambiguous, I didn't enjoy it.
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thats why darren has made it where the will be NO commentary on his dvd. He doesnt want to explain...

I dont think there can be too much story ther can only be terrible told stories and great told stories.
 
Ya know, good post doug. I'll give an example. Smuggler's Ransom. It is set during the time of the Cold War, but a lot of people now don't remember that, so what do we do? We added some text in the beginning to set the story up, to enter you into the world.

There are tons of other examples of this, such as the prologue of Lord of the Rings.
 
And it is as simple as that, Doug. I just sat here trying to figure out how to say that, and you got it.

Even if the reason IS cliche, in that case the duty of entrancing the audience lies with the characters. Black Hawk Down, anyone?
 
smoking aces lots of charcter with story for each but not enough for me to care about anyone in the film. badly told story.
 
MojoTrancer said:
Dang put me on the spot and my mind has gone blank. Gimme a minute.
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I'll throw you one: ULTRAVIOLET

All glam, no guts. Yet, it didn't suffer from too much story, too many subplots, too many characters. It suffered from it's own limitations: A movie created to grab at what the creators assumed were stupid comic book lovers.

They were wrong, and their blatantly careless writing showed on screen. Who actually CARED about ANYTHING in this movie? And why? Like Hyler said, wrong storyteller.
 
MojoTrancer said:
But aren't there some films that have way too much going on? too many characters. too many plot points? Wouldn't that be too much story? Not sure if I'm wording that right. But I hope you get my drift.
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I think POTC2 suffers from this, maybe not the character part, but it has TOO MANY little subplots going on that don't really matter that I lost interest in the rest of the film.
 
resident evil series written garbage and glorification of no substance at least the game had meaning this... the who alice thing is STUPID just making his wife look bad ass in a movie.
 
Kholi said:
I'll throw you one: ULTRAVIOLET

All glam, no guts. Yet, it didn't suffer from too much story, too many subplots, too many characters. It suffered from it's own limitations: A movie created to grab at what the creators assumed were stupid comic book lovers.

They were wrong, and their blatantly careless writing showed on screen. Who actually CARED about ANYTHING in this movie? And why? Like Hyler said, wrong storyteller.
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that doesn't let me off the hook unfortunately. There wasn't too much story in that one. There was just enough crappy story.

I still want to give you an example of a movie that has way too much going on.
 
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