Oktava MK012A + Gitzo G-557 + Rode SM3

J

Joshua Provost

Veteran
Hi,

I need to get together a basic audio kit for short narrative film work. Mostly controlled interiors, but venture outside from time to time. Maximum budget is $400 and I have plenty of XLR cables already.

I'm a little confused by the For Starters sticky. The poster says he prefers the Rode of all under $400 mics, but most of the cheap setups are based on the Oktava. So, not sure to go with the Rode NTG1 or Oktava MK012.

Which wind screen for the Oktava?

Also, not sure whether to get the Rode SM3 shockmount or the Sabra SSM-1. They are the same price.

What do you think of this setup for cheap?

Thanks,
Josh
 
The Oktava MK012 with the hyper cardioid capsule (get it at sound-room.com and put in the discount code "DV") is only about $200 but it sounds much better than mics in its price range. It does have some serious drawbacks- handling noise and wind sensitivity. If you get the Oktava you HAVE to get the Rycote 20mm Baby Ball Gag ($140) with Jammer ($70) (even indoors, and no the “extreme windscreen” they sell at sound-room is NOT enough unless you are stationary on a c-stand indoors away from vents) and a K-Tek kssm shockmount with soft bands (get it at trewaudio.com $100).

Hyper cardioids (not cardioids) are generally preferred for indoor work since the off axis reflections can cause havok with shotguns. Get a good boom (gitzo 12.9' carbon fiber for $250) and mic it close :18" away and you will have great sound. After you have your mic, shockmount, wind protection, boom, sony 7506 (or better beyerdynamic DTD770) headphones and GOOD xlr cables. You will want to look at a mixer. I got the Sound Devices 302 ($1200 @ trew) you may be able to get away with the Sound Devices Mix Pre ($600) but I wouldn’t. This is really the minimum. Sorry for the bad news.
 
The Oktava seems like a great mic, but requires more accessories than I can afford right now.

What other hypercardiod options do I have for recording indoors that are more plug-and-play?
 
the akg blueline with the ck93 hyper capsule is the next step up but the mic and cap are $500 and you still need wind and shock protection.
 
Joshua Provost said:
The Oktava seems like a great mic, but requires more accessories than I can afford right now.

What other hypercardiod options do I have for recording indoors that are more plug-and-play?
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you will need the same acssesories for all the mics - filmsis not cheap buisness :-)
think about it as a camera rig , the optic and the legs cost the same for dv 450 and beta digital 970.you cant leave without glass in front as you cant live without windprotection no matter what mic you use .
 
Yeh, I get the need for accessories, it just seemed like the Oktava would require a priceier shock mount and windscreens than, say, the Rode NTG-1, which sounds like it is less sensitive to handling noise and wind.

So, there basically aren't any <$300 options for indoor recording that don't require a $100 shockmount and $150 worth of wind protection? Can I use my Shure SM vocal/instrument mics I use for music recording?
 
Actually you don't have to get the $100 KSSM or the $150 BBG unless you're working in heavy wind condition. I use the $50 shock mount from Sound Room AND the $50 windscreen they sell and it works fine for interior as well as outdoor provided there's little to no wind. You do need a boom though and that'll run you another $150 minimum. If you're going for camera mounted, get the Rode SM-3 shockmount instead ($50) because it comes with a hot shoe.
 
If you are short on cash, you definitely should not be spending money twice on things. Buying the correct thing the first time costs less overall. I have the rode shockmount and I like it because you can mount it on the camera or on the boom (it is the only one I have seen that does both out of the box). When I am alone shooting b-roll, i mount my ME-66 on the cam for nat sound and it is nice. It is not nearly as soft and supple as the kssm and I would never use it for the Oktava. There are already low rumblings occasionally if you boom op moves his hands wrong even with the kssm. I also have the "extreme condition" windscreen that they sell at sound-room.com. I use it for interviews inside where the boom is in a cradle on a C-stand and not moving. It is not suitable for use with an operator even inside because if your boom op swings the mic to stay with talent, you get wooshing. Even small moves can cause low frequency "jitters" in the sound of the mic. WHen you put the mic on some good headphones or studio monitors you will hear it, I don't care what anyone says.

Get a credit card, steal from your mom's purse, wait for your uncle to die, whatever it takes. but don't wast $100 on something that will not do what you need
 
That has not been my experience with the products. Obviously the KSSM & BBG are better but if you can't afford anything better and you need the mic soon then these alternative works fine.
 
I suppose we will have to disagree then. That is one thing I do love about these forums, every person here has different experiences to share.

You have to admit that if there is a remote possibility that they could scrape together the extra $ that they should since the kssm and bbg will hold their life if/when they upgrade to the blueline/ck93 or even a scheops. And they can add the jammer to the bbg and use it outside.
 
Yup. If I had been able to scrap together the cash for the BBG & the KSSM when I bought the Oktava I would have.
 
I think this is one of the six of one, half a dozen of the other debates.

The Oktava can work on a boom with just some pretty basic foam but if the Oktava is your sole hyper boom mic, you will probably need to swing it hard from time to time. It is then you will wish you had sprung for the BBG. OTOH, if you want to save a hundred bucks and don't mind working around shots that require hard boom swings, you can do that too. Just understand what you are getting yourself into and don't start cursing the people who recommended the Oktava when it keeps screwing up certain shots.

Cheers
 
Thanks for the responses. They are helpful, since I do have a pretty hard $400 budget for everything. We have a 48-hour challenge coming up next weekend, thus the rush. We've made fifteen shorts, but gotton by with mostly a small Sony on-camera stereo mic to this point and the occassional ADR. There's a large filmmaking community here, so when the time comes to upgrade, I'll like pass the old rig on to someone else. I'll be sure to monitor carefully.

I'm curious what a shotgun does sound like indoors. I am a DP myself, but on a recent shoot they were using a Sennheiser shotgun mic for an entirely indoor shoot, and the audio came out great. What exactly is the drawback of a shotgun indoors?
 
Because of its off-axis rejection property, a shotgun will pick up the sound refecting from the wall in such a way that'll cause the voice to sound thin, like it's coming from inside a can. It's not a major thing and most people won't notice but put a hyper and a shotgun sample side by side and you'll notice the difference.
 
Most people say they have (insert arbitray number here) and sacrifice when they should not. Knowing more about the situation, I think you will be able to get by with planning and attention to detail. The Oktava is a really nice mic for the money.
 
saneproductions said:
Most people say they have (insert arbitray number here) and sacrifice when they should not.
Click to expand...

Should be the title of the audio section. "I plan to mindlessly spend as little money as someone will tell me it is ok to cheap out on because I blew my was on the camera and accessories."

I guess that is too long though.

The idea here is you can boom an Oktava without a BBG but you can also get a cheap tripod that does not have a useable pan or tilt. Could you work around it? Sure, but you are giving yourself a major handicap.

It's no big deal to discover this for yourself but hopefully you won't learn the limitations doing something professional or something that involves a lot of other people's time. Your gear and you will forever be labeled as amateur by any witnesses.

Cheers
 
Cheers Wabbit!!

Sometimes I talk myself blue in the face to help share the load around here telling everyone what you and MattinSTL (and many many others) already knew (and taught me).

I really enjoy doing it though. This is a great place.
 
Guys, thanks for all of your input. I went ahead with the Rode NTG-1, Rode SM-3, Rode deadcat, and the Gitzo aluminum boom pole. All together less than $450.

We shot the film over the weekend with a first-time boom operator. Fortunately, with this setup, we had no issues at all with the boom operation itself. No bumping or handling noise whatsoever.

I had the Rode on the right channel on the DVX with the on-board mic on the left for backup. On a couple shots I think the rear pickup sensitivity on the Rode got us into some noise, and the on-board mic sounded more pleasing, but I was able to use the Rode 80-90% of the time. Sounded great, even indoors.

At some point in the future, I will add the Octava to my kit for indoor shooting, but I was pleased with the Rode for this shoot.
 
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