Question about fluid head drag adjustments (Miller vs. others)

marco0782

marco0782

Well-known member
I just purchased a Miller DS-20 tripod head and its tilt and pan drag adjustments are friction based. If the dials are set to zero there is no friction and it's completely fluid, otherwise you can increase friction. The friction isn't nearly as smooth, though, and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in drag. Is this head defective or is this just the way it is? I'm very unimpressed.

How do the Cartoni Focus or Sachtler DV-6 compare in terms of drag adjustments. Are they friction based or otherwise?

Thanks.
 
first off : Friction heads and Fluid heads are completely different
Friction heads are normally cheap, and are normally used for stills photography.
a Fluid head is filled with an oil/ lubricant to make the movement smoother, there is a big difference in the quality of the fluid head in say a Sachtler DV-6 and a Satchler Vision18. The fluid in the head can become quite thick then it's cold or has not been used for a while.
First off, make sure the tripod as at room temp, set the dials to 0, put the camera on top of the tripod and adjust the top plate so that the camera is perfectly balanced with no lock and no resistance on either pan or tilt.
now dial in 2 or 3 with both pan and tilt and move the head in large arcs to get the fluid moving. now dial to 0 again and check that you are perfectly balanced again.
now dial the pan and tilt to you desired setting and try a couple of smooth movements
this should make a vast difference to the performance of the head

ian
 
Thanks for the response. I know what a friction head is, and this tripod is a fluid head. The head itself retails for $1000. What's weird is that the drag knobs work by introducing friction to the movement, and I didn't expect that in such an expensive head. Basically I want to make sure before I spend $600 extra to get a Sachtler DV-6 that it isn't going to have crappy drag adjustments like the Miller.

The Miller DV Solo carbon fiber legs are amazing, however, so I plan to keep them.
 
ooh sorry i can't help you then,
i don't know the satchler dv-6,
i have a satchler video 18 : ($8,000 approx) which are gathering dust at the moment, because i don't like them that much and they are too heavy.
they have been replaced with the new Vinten Fibretec / Vision100 ( again about $8,000 ) they are £4,000 and dollar to pound is nearly 2:1

both these tripods are TRUE Fluid heads

ian
 
Hey Marco,

I own the Miller ds10 head and carbon fiber sticks. The drag controls on the miller head absolutly suck! They are basically tightening a metal screw on the panning/tilting part of the head against the stationary part of the head and more pressure = more drag =LAME. This lame trick makes it so they can put a couple more things in their marketing that says true fluid head with pan and tilt drag controls. The rest of the tripod I am very happy with, as well as legs.

I let someone use my tripod right after I got it. They didn't know what the heck they were doing and they set the drag on the panning knob really tight and when I got it back there were actually metal shavings that came out when I put it back in the bag. I'm guessing they thought it was the panning lock down knob and when they tried to pan the metal screw dug in producing the metal shavings. AHHHHH! I was so mad. Paid $1300 just 1 week before. The tripod works fine still with no problems, but lesson learned. No one uses my gear now but me.

I have not used the Cartoni Focus, which is one of the very few that are true fluid heads in a similar price range. I do know however that the Cartoni does not have a safety lock for the camera plate like the Miller does which is a pretty big deal to me. The Miller has one yellow button and one yellow lever. The yellow button secures the plate onto the head so the plate with your camera will not slide off the head onto the floor. The yellow lever is really only for balancing your camera onto the head to make for the best pans and tilts and also to let the head return itself to a level position so the tripod doesn't get too front or back heavy.

The Miller head also has a black lever with a #1 and #2 next to it. This is a true drag control for the tilting part of the head. #1 is less drag and #2 is more. If this lever is not working you may want to return it for another. I have noticed you have to do a bit of tilting to get the change to take affect so try that first.

Ok so you want to do ULTRA FLUID TILTING AND PANNING? This is what you do: Remove the rubber grip on the handle if you can(it's tough) and attach an extension pole on the inside or the outside diameter and attach it or leave it loose in any nunber of ways. The main thing you want is the extra length to increase your handles length which will increase the fine tunning of your pans and tilts.

Hope this helps

-Kevin

My extension pole is a 3' aluminum pole.
 
Hey Marco,

I was wrong. The #1 and #2 adjustments are not drag controls. They are used only to adjust how quickley the tilt will return to level position. It's like a rubber-band where #2 is more stretched out than #1 producing more force to spring the table back to level faster.

I also noticed a couple threads down people talking about the cartoni's plate flexing with less than the specified weight on the head. You may want to read that. Millers plate is metal.

-Kev
 
Thanks for the responses Kevin. My problem with the head is that I want it do have more drag, to be tighter, but I don't want to use the crappy friction knobs. Otherwise the head has a very smooth action.

I think I'm gonna just buy the Sacthler DV6 like I should have in the first place. If I didn't need more drag I would have kept the Miller because it's otherwise a very good head. Shame on Miller though for putting drag adjustment knobs when they don't really do anything.

The Miller DV Solo carbon fiber legs are probably the best tripod legs I've ever seen, though.
 
marco0782 said:
Shame on Miller though for putting drag adjustment knobs when they don't really do anything.
Click to expand...

Yeah I totally agree. This is what Miller says,

"Multi-Step Pan & Tilt Fluid Drag System


The multi-step Fluid Drag system ensures smooth, consistent fluid drag control across all temperature ranges and through a wide range of light and heavy settings. By being independent of payload weight, provides smooth "starts" and dead "stops" for precise framing without any backlash. The system is fully sealed within sub-assemblies for a leakproof, low maintenance life."

Yeah right. One other thing that is to be expected is the miller legs are so light that in order to do quick pans you'll need to spread the legs out further or attach some weight to the ring on the underside or you risk bringing up one of the legs. I assume this might have played a role in thier decision to the amount of drag in the fluid head alone. Let us know how the DV6 compares and especially if it has some better drag adjustments.

Good luck
 
Last edited:
Hi:

I have the Sachtler DV-6SB with the Miller Solo DV legs, it's a great combination. Not sure what the drag problem is that you are experiencing because I have never used the Miller head but the Sachtler's tilt and pan drag controls are smooth and precise, I have no complaints. The head has no backlash either, I can do very fine, smooth moves during interviews and the head responds beautifully.

I would advise getting the Sachtler, it is great. I used to own a Sachtler Video 18. While the $8,000.00 tripod and head is better, the DV-6SB basically functions as a smaller version of the same thing, it is one the best pieces of gear I have ever owned.

Best,

Dan
 
The Miller DS series heads are fluid heads. It's just there is only one level of fluid drag and that is what is built into them. The drag adjustment, as others have said, is a friction boost. It states in the manual:

The DS10/DS20 fluid head provides adjustment for tilt and pan drag control. Rotate clockwise to engage friction resistance, anticlockwise to return to fluid action. Note: The fluid drag plate system has been designed to suit most operating conditions. The friction drag adjustment should only be utilised when extra resistance is required.
Click to expand...
The description of the drag system that Kevin quoted is probably from B&H and this is old. The info on Miller's website now clearly says it is a friction boost. But I agree they should have been more clear from the start.

I think Miller makes good products and the DS heads are well built (they use ball bearings), but the limited drag and counterbalance controls always made me not recommend those particular heads. I think Miller definitely needs to redesign them to be more competitive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top