how do pro sound editors use room tone?

Tim Young

Tim Young

Active member
i'm working on editing and mixing sound for a short we just did for drama-fest (see our thread here) using digital performer on a mac. anyway i was wondering how pros generally deal with room tone. for example, when a sound or dialogue editor has production dialogue with gaps between, and has room tone tracks or room tone from before action was called on that take, do they:

1. put room tone in between the gaps only
2. use a continuous, separate track of room tone
3. both

if the answer is 2, do they then also try to decrease the room tone in the dialog tracks by using noise reduction or gates so room tone isn't doubled during the dialogue?

i tried both options 1 and 2 in our last short (either one or the other), and i'm not sure which worked better as far as making the dialogue tracks sound smoother and more continuous. i'm thinking of doing both (option 3) this time to see how it sounds. if anyone knows how it's generally done, either because you do it yourself or you've seen it done, i'd be interested to find out.
 
I generally do cross fades between dialogue and room tone or ambience. Tune the level between the two, overlap them on separate tracks a bit and do a fade out on one and a fade up on the other. You don't need much more than a few frames. The fades are important because if you just butt them together you can get pops.

You will need to have some silence or part without words from the clip of dialogue you can copy and use. If none is present you will need the original unedited clip to search for a free spot. It works best if right before or after the shot for the sound guy to get a recording of the ambience in the space. That way you don't have to search around in clips. If the scene is long make sure to have them record enough to cover the entire length. This is important if you have to ADR an entire scene. You will need a long enough ambience track to last the whole scene.

I will remove what ever noises are unwelcome but be careful with programs like Soundsoap. They work great for little noises and static but if you have road noise or another broadband sound it can get a little rough. If you remove all of the broadband noise your dialogue will really suffer. Just be careful about how much noise you take out. Sometime some noise is better than muddy dialogue.

Good Luck.
 
Room tone to fill in the gaps but generally you will want to add some ambient to fill out the soundtrack.

All those things you worked to get rid of during production you put back in during post. :)

Cheers
 
thanks for the replies guys. i've been watching dvds paying closer attention to sound and it does seem they have more ambience than i realized. i think i'll try creating a fuller ambience track for this short, along with using room tone to patch the dialogue.
 
Not sure if I would call myself a pro yet, but I do make a living split between location and post sound. I'll also agree with using it to fill in gaps. Also use it quite a bit to cover up wierd sounds, rf junk, boom junk, whatever is not on the line.


Also, one little thing concerning tone. When you record your room tone, don't turn up the gain in order to get "good signal". The idea is that it should match the level of the room tone on the dialog tracks. Maybe this is a no brainer, but I have definately gotten room tone that is a good 5db or more hotter than the tone on the dialog. Yes its just as simple as turning it down but its a big hassle and slows me way down.

See ya.
 
My father was watching the LOTR Two Towers DVD recently and brought up the audio extra they have on there demonstrating the layers of ambient, FX, and music that went into the battle scenes. I had forgotten about it but if you are interested in what it takes to fill out a scene it is definately worth checking out.

The new DVD of Apocolypse Now has some really good extra on Sound Design too. Those guys (most specifically Walter Murch) really invented the art of Sound Design. Check it out.

Cheers
 
wabbit said:
My father was watching the LOTR Two Towers DVD recently and brought up the audio extra they have on there demonstrating the layers of ambient, FX, and music that went into the battle scenes. I had forgotten about it but if you are interested in what it takes to fill out a scene it is definately worth checking out.

The new DVD of Apocolypse Now has some really good extra on Sound Design too. Those guys (most specifically Walter Murch) really invented the art of Sound Design. Check it out.

Cheers
Click to expand...

i'll definitely check out both. i loved the commentary track that walter murch did for the conversation.
 
When I work on a film where there will be full foley coverage (ie. for an M&E mix), I'll often replace most non-dailogue production sound with room tone. That way, I can avoid doubling up the foley with the "production foley."

If you're not ADR'ing an entire scene, you'll need a layer of room tone along with the ADR track to match the ADR with the production sound.

As previously stated, room tone is almost always used to fill in editorial gaps in the production sound, rather than playing constantly throughout the scene regardless of dialogue. An exception occurs when you have a scene where the background sound varries drastically from shot to shot. For example: a conversation that occurs next to a street, in which background traffic levels come and go abruptly on cuts. In such a case, you may have to mix one shot's room tone with another shot's dialogue to ensure consistant sound.

Be sure to keep all the room tone on a seperate track, though. Droog's quite right that level mismatches between dialogue and room tone are a problem, and this is much easier to control with the RT on its own track.

Right now, I'm cutting a drama in which the production sound recordist opted to not record any room tone. Needless to say, I'm pulling my hair out trying to work with the 1 or 2 seconds per scene of useable room tone I've managed to find after hours of searching through poorly logged production DAT's.
 
John_Hudson said:
I use Room Tone straight across the scene on it's own track.
Click to expand...

Run it strait accross but automate fades up and and down congruently when the dialog starts and ends.

Simultaneously Xfade the dialog to fade in BEFORE the shot "breaks" into the "actual" scene then crossfade down AFTER the scene is gone.

Music is often thrown into scenes to mask dialog problems.

Great sound is half the picture!
- -- ~~<((( d(-_-)b )))>~~ -- -
 
SMuir said:
Right now, I'm cutting a drama in which the production sound recordist opted to not record any room tone. Needless to say, I'm pulling my hair out trying to work with the 1 or 2 seconds per scene of useable room tone I've managed to find after hours of searching through poorly logged production DAT's.
Click to expand...

Been there, continue to have to do that. :)

I feel your pain.
 
BTW, as a side rant: no Oscar nomination for sound for Children of Men...what a ripoff. Simple once of the best mixed films I have seen in years.

Sorry, needed to get that off my chest somewhere.
 
SiliconAudioLabs said:
Run it strait accross but automate fades up and and down congruently when the dialog starts and ends.

Simultaneously Xfade the dialog to fade in BEFORE the shot "breaks" into the "actual" scene then crossfade down AFTER the scene is gone.

Music is often thrown into scenes to mask dialog problems.

Great sound is half the picture!
- -- ~~<((( d(-_-)b )))>~~ -- -
Click to expand...

Tks for the tip

Trying it now ! :cheesy:
 
As a rule you fill the gaps. Fx editors will be adding ambience to fill out the space. The reason for the room tone is so you don't hear the drop out where you have out all the bad junk that ended up on the production tracks. A feature can have a lot of ambience (usually referred to as background tracks or just BG's), usually at least two or three stereo tracks and a hand full of sweeteners like garbage truck by's or a bird call etc depending on the scene. But it's not unusual to have 8 - 16 tracks.
 
John_Hudson said:
I use Room Tone straight across the scene on it's own track.
Click to expand...

Do you fade the Room Tone out during dialigue and other sounds recorded on set?
If you don't it would double up the room tone, does that not make it louder?
 
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