Lighting with projected images in the back

Guillaume Guite

Guillaume Guite

Member
Hi,

I'm about to shoot this music video in two weeks, where the band plays in front of fabric sreens on which some video footage is projected with some multimedia projectors. The main projector is a 2500 ANSI lumens and the side ones are 1000 ANSI lumens.

Any hints on lighting the musicians?

Here's a sketch of the set up (no, the band is not Devo :) ), the floor is made of reflecting tiles made with aluminium:

Image-8.jpg
 
it may seem obvious but i wanted to ask,

are the images projected from the front or the back?

thanks in advance

be well

rob
 
Have you thought of using a green/blue screen? It seems that the lighting would spill onto the projected image. You'll need some very controlled lighting if you don't green screen it. The reflective floor also seems like a tough thing to work with, but would be able to be keyed out if needed.
 
Yeah, thought of it, but I'm not very at ease with keying, and I'm using a DVX100A. I fear that the video will really look like a Devo video ;) Also, the clip will be shot in steady cam, and I really want the look of projected images. Great point about the difficulty of the reflecting floor though...

Thanks anyway!
 
Try and get some distance between the band and the screens. Get some back light coming down from above the screens and then use cross keying to light the band, that way you will be able to control the spill on the screens easier. I hope you have some ceiling height. For the drummer's key you may be able to put a fresnel on the floor, hidden behind the guitar amps on either side.
 
You are going to need brighter projectors. I am a AV Engineer and you will be lucky to see anything after you light the band. Just in a typical conference room with normal room lighting we wouldn't recommend anything less than 3500 lumens. 4000 preferred. In a highly lit theatrical situation we would double stack two 5500 lumen projectors for a total of 11000 lumens.

I agree with ozduc's recommendations. If you can separate the musicians from the screens far enough and flag the crap out of the lights so the screens are almost floating in a black background it might work out for you.

Good luck.
 
I know I should get brighter projectors but we don't have the budget. By "double stacking" two projectors, do you mean project the same image from two projectors on the same screen? That might work out for me.

Anyways, we're running some tests this weekend, we'll see how it turns out. I'll post the results here.

Thanks a lot for your help everyone!
 
The only problem with having brighter projectors is you will have to compensate by adding even more light to the talent or you will over expose the screens or under expose the talent.
 
I would run a test with a sit-down interview set up in my hosue or garage at night. If you can come up with a light scenario that will light one person well against the background, you duplicate that scenario with each of the other band members. Besides if your lighting is 'lower' overall you'll be able to shoot wider open with shallower depth of field.

Besides, do the projected images have to be completely, ballz out bright? Might look cool if they are a tad dim, and then you add some other rear-projection lighting to them. Maybe add some Super 8mm projectors with no film in them -running at 12 or 18fps for some cool strobing-- you could even put gels in front of their lenses.
 
You're going to have to give me a pass on this post... because I'm going to make predictions rather then say I know 100% on this.

I think it will be best if you can test this prior to the actual day of shooting. Get a buddy and go to the set if you can. I think the shot you posted was done with softboxes... and they fall off pretty quick... plus you can flag off the spill. How many band members? How much does the cam have to move? What lighting angles are acceptable?

With your challenges as stated here is what I would do. I would want the entire set dark before you start lighting it. I would try to get the background independent of the band... meaning some distance if possible. Distance from the BG (screens) to the closest band member... maybe 10'+... then I'd either use softboxes aiming down at 45 degree angles from above the shot... using grids so that there's little spill... and you could consider some white bouncing fill back up from the floor... have the shot framed so that the white doesn't show or else accept white at the feet... or maybe it's a white floor?. Anyway... then I'd flag off these lights... if you're talking serious lights then you may want to buy some bulk duvetyne (black 100% light blocking fabric) and have it creating a curtain between the lights and the BG... I mean to set the flag or duvetyne about 2' or less from the lights, hanging down... with the lights about 1.5' higher off the floor then the duvetyne or flag... so that any side spill will be caught by the flag... but the light is still AIMING at the band members... do you follow me? Visualize a cave opening... where the cave has higher ceilings and wider walls inside then at the opening.... your band will be playing in the light of the cave opening (that you created by flagging the higher, outside light source)... then the screens will show up GREAT in the dark BG that you just created... even if they were lower lumens.

What do you think? I'll bet that works... you could probably do it with two or three boxes and two or three (larger) flags.
 
what is the shooting environment? are you in a studio? what is the height to the ceiling and is there a grid? do you have a large lighting kit available. Beaucoup de détails sont nécessaires pour vous donner une réponse.
 
Tests - tests - tests

Tests - tests - tests

Hi everyone,

My friend and me performed some tests yesterday on the location where the video will be shot. It's a medium concert venue, by the way, with approximately 10' ceilings. I'd say it's approximately 40' x 80' (stage included). There are no grids.

The screen was a temporary fixture, it will probably be hanging from the ceiling.

Here are the results:
- The 2500 and 2000 lumens projectors are more than fine. The 1000 L is too dark and too greenish.

- The lights we used for the tests were a set of 2x500w yellow worklights, with diffusers (I don't know if it's the right term?) on ; and reflectors on the other side. For the real shot we thought of a set of 3x650w redhead open-face, because they are cheap to rent.

Look at the pictures below and tell me what you think. The thing is: the yellow projected on the screen looks more like green, so I have to crank the white balance all the way up to tungsten so the fire looks orange. Is it a good idea to compensate with daylight gels on the lights? The other thing is I'm not sure if there is enough light on the subject.

One thing, we are ULTRA low on budget for this thing, therefore we can't afford expensive light setups, so I'll have to make compromises I guess.

MattinSTL: 5 band members (1 on drums, in the back, and 4 frontmen). Are softboxes like softlights? There are ZIP 2 K MOLE for rent, would that be it?

Test1.jpgTest2.jpg

Here's a plan of yesterday's setup:
setup.gif

Again, thanks A LOT for your help guys.
 
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As long as the screen is in a "hole" of sorts... you'll be fine. As long as you create this dark hole with flags or something to block the light... you can pump up the light on the talent.

Lemme' try to draw up what I mean and post a little sketch like you have there... be right back.

Okay... what a junk illustration... but this is what I mean. It looks like you're already on the way to success here, but basically the most important part of this is going to be the light control (flags or hanging full stop fabric outside of frame). If you go with soft light you'll need wider flags blocking spill... and if you use hard light then it will be more directional and easier to cut. I usually prefer soft light or flos... which is why I have a truckload of black duvetyne and flags. You can use a boom stand or C-stand arm and hang a piece of black duvetyne creating a giant flag.

Okay now check out this prime technical example... I should be an architect.

flagslights.jpg


The 2 lights in the rear light the drummer and the screen images create the backlight on him... or you can mount a back light for rim/hair above the screen... those 2 lights also provide the backlight for the front men... and the front lights do the rest. Simple No?
 
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