Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
nothing really, i just thought that was the question. earning respect, gaining respect, and how to do it. like if I asked how do I drink a glass of water and someone told me, "by drinking it".greenheron said:
How do I gain a crew's respect?
- Thread starter c.g._eads
- Start date
greenheron
Well-known member
You think gaining respect is as simple as drinking a glass of water.
Maybe that is your problem grasshopper.
Maybe that is your problem grasshopper.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
no.greenheron said:
i was illustrating that you unwittingly answered the question with the question. you said you waded thru all these posts and the answer was so obvious to you. and yet, you only recited the question. essentially, your advice on earning respect is to earn it.
just pointing out a lack of insight in what i deemed to be a condecending, dismissive and contradictory post.
greenheron
Well-known member
"a little thing i do is... on the first day, make your first two shots easy ones; something that you and the crew can quickly set-up and knock out in a few takes. it definitely helps to set a perception of a smoothly running production and raises everyone's confidence in themselves as well as the project."
Maybe you work with inexperienced crew, but I find this very condescending. Director's I work with expect to get the job done and the crew loves rising to a challenge. We are professionals getting paid for our work.
You earn respect by working hard, being prepared, having talent and passion for what you do and by treating the people around you with respect.
Creating some false sense of accomplishment by starting with simple shots just shows inexperience. You shoot what you have to shoot because of light issues, talent, location moves, etc.
You think suggestions such as feeding people, setting up simple shots, is an answer for how to earn respect. I don't think so.
Maybe you work with inexperienced crew, but I find this very condescending. Director's I work with expect to get the job done and the crew loves rising to a challenge. We are professionals getting paid for our work.
You earn respect by working hard, being prepared, having talent and passion for what you do and by treating the people around you with respect.
Creating some false sense of accomplishment by starting with simple shots just shows inexperience. You shoot what you have to shoot because of light issues, talent, location moves, etc.
You think suggestions such as feeding people, setting up simple shots, is an answer for how to earn respect. I don't think so.
I don't entirely agree with the 'earn respect' perspective.
There's also the dynamic in which a crew is willing to 'advance' the director their respect, that is, walk onto his set giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best about him.
Which is why your crew's respect can be something with which you start off, and then lose.
But, simply doing the same things that will let you retain respect, will also allow you to earn it.
There's also the dynamic in which a crew is willing to 'advance' the director their respect, that is, walk onto his set giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best about him.
Which is why your crew's respect can be something with which you start off, and then lose.
But, simply doing the same things that will let you retain respect, will also allow you to earn it.
ozduc
Well-known member
Here is one way to quickly lose it and it ties in with one of your other posts.
Show up on set with a minimal crew because you were trying to "save a few bucks on meals" or you want to "move quickly".
Do you really think the sound guy you hired is going to respect you when you have them loading the grip truck or you ask the production designer to go and get props?
Or your AD who is also acting as UPM has to go and deal with some production related issue while the rest of the crew stand around wondering what needs to be done.
Chris I can understand that being a first time director you have all these questions and concerns, however all 3 of your recent posts can be tied together here. As I said in one of your other posts hire an experieced AD and UPM/line producer and let them take care of the logistics and mechanics of running the set so you can concentrate on your job "directing". Explain to them during Pre-Pro what you would like to do with the movie and ways you have thought of doing it. They will soon let you know if you can have that 30 sec helicopter opening montage.
Show up on set with a minimal crew because you were trying to "save a few bucks on meals" or you want to "move quickly".
Do you really think the sound guy you hired is going to respect you when you have them loading the grip truck or you ask the production designer to go and get props?
Or your AD who is also acting as UPM has to go and deal with some production related issue while the rest of the crew stand around wondering what needs to be done.
Chris I can understand that being a first time director you have all these questions and concerns, however all 3 of your recent posts can be tied together here. As I said in one of your other posts hire an experieced AD and UPM/line producer and let them take care of the logistics and mechanics of running the set so you can concentrate on your job "directing". Explain to them during Pre-Pro what you would like to do with the movie and ways you have thought of doing it. They will soon let you know if you can have that 30 sec helicopter opening montage.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Be confident... never show the crew that you don't know what to do, even though you might not know what to do.
Also, treat everyone on the cast and crew with the same respect you would want... and it doesn't matter if it's a PA... treat them with respect... they're there doing the "simple" work so you don't have to.
Also, treat everyone on the cast and crew with the same respect you would want... and it doesn't matter if it's a PA... treat them with respect... they're there doing the "simple" work so you don't have to.
pmgmedia
Well-known member
Being prepared means a shot list - and knowing what coverage you want in every scene - so you can let the crew know the set-ups that are coming.
- One time I was on an indie film and when we went to set up the first shot, the director started to run around the set saying, "Okay okay, he walks in and he is over there and then he says his line then he shoots the other guy, then he runs out..." and he kept going on and on until he had narrated the first five minutes of the movie. He had no idea he had just described about 20 set-ups, including effects shots and squib gags. Not one mention of where to put camera or how to cover any of it. Uh oh goes the entire crew... Luckily the 1st AD stepped in and set-up virtually every shot of the film.
- Another story is about director fresh out of film school who, instead of calling 'action' at the first shot, she says, "Okay..ready everyone..get set..GO!" Entire crew laughed.
It's those elementary things that are vital: Have the director's professional 'routine' down for each shot - after you block the actors and they are ready, you call for sound and camera ('Roll camera!) ..DP says 'speed' when he is ready..then call for background action if there is any (you say 'Background!')..then say 'Action!' for the main actors. Give a few beats after the scene ends before saying 'Cut.'
- As far as the crew goes, be professional, cordial, decisive and demanding. You will quickly see which crew members are team players and which are there for a paycheck and or to mock the proceedings. There are know-it-all assholes on every crew, those guys that don't know how to contribute constructively to the project - I am sure even Cameron and Spielberg have do deal with them. If you feel anyone is going to undermine your authority - take them aside and talk to them. These guys can be a cancer to a long production shooting schedule - you got to get them on your side or cut them out early.
- Also on the first day I like to fire one PA or grip who shows up late to the shoot. haha.
- One time I was on an indie film and when we went to set up the first shot, the director started to run around the set saying, "Okay okay, he walks in and he is over there and then he says his line then he shoots the other guy, then he runs out..." and he kept going on and on until he had narrated the first five minutes of the movie. He had no idea he had just described about 20 set-ups, including effects shots and squib gags. Not one mention of where to put camera or how to cover any of it. Uh oh goes the entire crew... Luckily the 1st AD stepped in and set-up virtually every shot of the film.
- Another story is about director fresh out of film school who, instead of calling 'action' at the first shot, she says, "Okay..ready everyone..get set..GO!" Entire crew laughed.
It's those elementary things that are vital: Have the director's professional 'routine' down for each shot - after you block the actors and they are ready, you call for sound and camera ('Roll camera!) ..DP says 'speed' when he is ready..then call for background action if there is any (you say 'Background!')..then say 'Action!' for the main actors. Give a few beats after the scene ends before saying 'Cut.'
- As far as the crew goes, be professional, cordial, decisive and demanding. You will quickly see which crew members are team players and which are there for a paycheck and or to mock the proceedings. There are know-it-all assholes on every crew, those guys that don't know how to contribute constructively to the project - I am sure even Cameron and Spielberg have do deal with them. If you feel anyone is going to undermine your authority - take them aside and talk to them. These guys can be a cancer to a long production shooting schedule - you got to get them on your side or cut them out early.
- Also on the first day I like to fire one PA or grip who shows up late to the shoot. haha.
ozduc said:
You see, this is very sad to me. Because I was hoping to get the kind of crew together who understands that this is a low budget ordeal and have people who understand that even though they're in Department A, they realize that Department C needs help, and be okay with that. An actress that picks up a cord if it's needed. A camerman who does the sound for a day because the sound guy went to the hospital choking. I guess that's wishful thinking?
saulsx
Member
Yeah, what everybody else said.
Having taken a few unpaid gigs, if I've ever found myself wanting to leave a set or location because I was bored with scratching my ass after watching the director struggle to get a shot, it was probably for one of the following reasons:
The DP, AD or PM was the one that was directing.
The director had not a clue of what he or she was doing or how he or she wanted to do it.
He or she had no plan.
Did not communicate with the crew.
I don't have a problem with inexperience, working without getting paid sometimes, or standing around on a set, but those things should probably be avoided if possible.
I say:
Plan like hell.
Have some kind of idea how you want to shoot the thing before you get there to shoot it.
Be clear, respectful and courteous in communicating with the cast and crew.
Be open.
Make decisions.
Having taken a few unpaid gigs, if I've ever found myself wanting to leave a set or location because I was bored with scratching my ass after watching the director struggle to get a shot, it was probably for one of the following reasons:
The DP, AD or PM was the one that was directing.
The director had not a clue of what he or she was doing or how he or she wanted to do it.
He or she had no plan.
Did not communicate with the crew.
I don't have a problem with inexperience, working without getting paid sometimes, or standing around on a set, but those things should probably be avoided if possible.
I say:
Plan like hell.
Have some kind of idea how you want to shoot the thing before you get there to shoot it.
Be clear, respectful and courteous in communicating with the cast and crew.
Be open.
Make decisions.
pmgmedia
Well-known member
Yes. That's wishful thinking. The more experienced a crew is, the less likely you'll get that crossover department helping each other thing. It is actually a valuable thing to have each crew member/department responsible for only one job - otherwise it rapidly becomes becomes chaos on the set, with no one taking responsibility. Having enough PAs helps because their job is to help out on the set doing whatever needs getting done. If the soundman doesn't want to unload C-stands it doesn't mean he's a jerk, it means you need more grips. Most crews I work with know how to help each other out - the soundguy will sandbag lights and run stingers, etc, - just don't TELL him to. Everyone helps out picking up cords and stuff. Just remember that, even if it is not a union shoot, (or a paid shoot for that matter) it's always a good idea to respect union guidelines for this kind of thing. Following (as much as you can) union rules shows you respect and value the work these guys are doing. For example, give the crew dinner when the shoot goes late, give them 10 hours between wrap and next morning calltime, don't tell the soundman to roll camera on a scene while the DP is off taking a dump, etc.c.g._eads said:
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ozduc
Well-known member
c.g._eads said:
It is wishful thinking to a certain degree. As you hire crew, if you explain to them that this is a skeleton crew and ask is there any other areas they wouldn't mind working in should the need arise, you may find yourself some crew that would be happy to help out in other areas if necessary and they are compensated accordingly.
The only problem with that is it will slow down the set and not really save you money.
ozduc, I'm not arguing with you here. Just trying to understand.
If you have a small crew and make a company move and the sound guy is standing there picking his nose while all the stuff is being loaded into the truck, I don't see how him not helping load it as opposed to helping load it, saves time.
Or are you saying, since it's not his area of expertise, he won't know how to load it properly, thus causing delays while the grips reload it?
As trivial as this stuff sounds, I don't really know the ins and outs of a big crew (a big crew to me is 15 people) and would like to understand their point of view before choosing one.
If you have a small crew and make a company move and the sound guy is standing there picking his nose while all the stuff is being loaded into the truck, I don't see how him not helping load it as opposed to helping load it, saves time.
Or are you saying, since it's not his area of expertise, he won't know how to load it properly, thus causing delays while the grips reload it?
As trivial as this stuff sounds, I don't really know the ins and outs of a big crew (a big crew to me is 15 people) and would like to understand their point of view before choosing one.
Drew Ott
Wish I were banned.
Since we're taking about what goes on on a production set, I have a few questions.
1) What is the usual break routine? I assume there is a lunch break, but when is the right time for a short 5-10 minute break for everybody to go get some of the food/use the restroom, etc.
2) If you are going to be working with a relatively large crew for a short time, is it necessary to learn everybody's names? I assume you should know the department heads and the people you are working closely with, but until you learn everybody's names, is it OK to just say "hey you"?
1) What is the usual break routine? I assume there is a lunch break, but when is the right time for a short 5-10 minute break for everybody to go get some of the food/use the restroom, etc.
2) If you are going to be working with a relatively large crew for a short time, is it necessary to learn everybody's names? I assume you should know the department heads and the people you are working closely with, but until you learn everybody's names, is it OK to just say "hey you"?
wabbit
Evil has Ears
c.g._eads said:
When did this become a bash the sound guy thread?
Seriously though, things like loading and unloading are best left to those responsible for it. Everytime someone tries to help a grip grab or load something
he/she either grabs the wrong thing or puts it back in the wrong place. Simple things like wrapping the cable wrong will drive most grips insane.
As to this "earned respect" vs "established respect," we are mincing words here. As Hudson alluded to, there are many types of "respect." I think just like any position or title a certain amount of respect is naturally built into it. It takes balls and amazing coordination skills to put a budget movie together, so most people will naturally respect what it took to get that far and give the director/producer the benefit of the doubt. Of course that is a very tentative respect, easily lost, and it does not mean the person likes or admires you but at the start they should at least respect you.
If someone shows up on set with zero respect for the director as a person or as an authoritative position then I have serious questions about what the hell that person is doing there. They are either in it for the pay check and will shut up and go with the flow as long as the checks don't bounce or they are the type of person who does not know how to be a team player and will respect very little (usually these are the "wannabe director" types that can't put their own movie together but damn well can tear apart everything that is wrong with this production).
Personally, if I notice this type of person on a crew I encourage the director to confront anyone like this externalizing their disrepect. If they can't deal with their doubts in a constructive manner, they need to go.
As far as keeping the initial respect most crew members will provide you, that has been well covered in this thread already.
Cheers
ozduc
Well-known member
I totally realize that and I'm just adding my thoughts on the matter.c.g._eads said:
c.g._eads said:
Either or. I am all for people of different departments helping out but sometimes it may cause delays because they dont know what they are doing. Or worse still it could lead to an accident. Something as simple as a PA that is asked to set up a c-stand with a light on a boom arm, just happens to have the knuckle around the wrong way when he tightens it, then during the shoot it comes loose and a 1k fresnel comes down on your lead actresses head.
When you have inexperienced people doing a job it takes time for the experienced person to show them how to do it properly, thus taking time away from the experienced person just doing it.
c.g._eads said:
It's not trivial at all. There is always something to be learned from asking.
I do feel however that the best people to discuss this with is the producer, AD, UPM and your DP should be a part of the discussion as well.
If your UPM has already done a budget that comes in at your target amount and it includes a 30 person crew, I dont see the sense in cutting back unless there are people that you really dont need. Perhaps if you listed the 30 crew members here it would shed a bit of light on the subject.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
I routinely direct a small crew on the type of films i make. and in my experience, by doing the interviews during prepro for key positions myself, i can hand pick the people who have a real passion for filmmaking, not just a paycheck. and it's nosurprise that these are usually not veterens of the industry, but often "kids" who still have a fire and a genuine desire to contribute to the piece. i foster a highly collaborative environment between cast and crew. i've never had a problem being understaffed, yet my crews only consist of about a dozen people...
1 Director (me)
2 Producers (me and business partner)
1 1st AD
1 DP/Cam op
1 1st AC/ Cam op
2 Gaffer/Grips
1 Set PA / 2nd Boom op
1 Boom ops
1 Sound mixer
1 Wardrobe/Set design
i know most would prefer to have a more experienced crew on the set. but i find the whole process much more fruitful when the crew is open to my unique way of shooting a picture. anyway, this is what works for me.
1 Director (me)
2 Producers (me and business partner)
1 1st AD
1 DP/Cam op
1 1st AC/ Cam op
2 Gaffer/Grips
1 Set PA / 2nd Boom op
1 Boom ops
1 Sound mixer
1 Wardrobe/Set design
i know most would prefer to have a more experienced crew on the set. but i find the whole process much more fruitful when the crew is open to my unique way of shooting a picture. anyway, this is what works for me.