Oktava indoors -- BBG necessary?

Duff

Duff

Well-known member
I've read that the Oktava is very sensitive to wind noise and whatnot, but I'm wondering if it's used solely for indoor filming, can I get by with either the $7 "small windscreen" or the $49 "severe condition windscreen" from sound-room? If I'm never using the Oktava to film outdoors (I have the AT897, which I'll eventually upgrade to the AT4073), will either of the cheaper windscreens suffice for counteracting boom movement? If so, it would save me a valuable $90 or $132 (valuable when you're on a budget since you're about to spend all your money on the Canon A1). Again, I used the search function, but couldn't craft a search that brought up an answer to this question. Thanks.
 
The first time you swing the boom around to follow people you'll have your answer. Not being a smart ass... just honest. You MAY be able to get by with something like the Windtech screen... but you may not. If the mic is stationary on a boom, like for an interview, then any ordinary foam is fine.

If you use the Oktava and you think there's some electrical problem with it... like odd distortion while the mic is moving through the air... that's wind noise. Normal windnoise sounds like rumble that we've all heard a thousand times... the Oktava is succeptible to that, as are all mics... but it's no lie when we say the Oktava is extra sensitive to wind noise... before you get rumbles settling in you can sometimes get this odd distortion sound... it sounds just like there's an electrical problem and not a wind problem.

This is the price paid to the piper for the otherwise incredible $$$ to performance ratio. Maybe Oktava will get this sorted at some point down the line... but when you can get a mic that sounds so rich, full, and natural (compared to almost anything else in it's price range)... I'll take it.

So honestly... feel free to try the Windtech... it may work for you... but the reason I always push the BBG is because I know that works with no problems, and when I had the Windtech screens I occasionally got the buzzy distortion.

Maybe it's time for me to revisit the idea of making a BBG replacement. It does suck that it costs so damn much... it's just that so far I don't know where else to suggest you look. There's a screen like the Windtech called the Shure A81ws and I almost gave that a try just to see what it's capable of... but after buying two windtechs and two BBG's I just gave up on foam for this mic.

Also... in the case of omni, cardioid, and hyper-cardioid... these are all mics with small heads. They can all use the same windscreen... so even though it may suck buying a $130 windscreen for a $165 mic... that same screen will fit a $1500 Schoeops or a $650 AKG or T.H.E. or anything else with a small head that's in the same diameter range +/- a millimeter.

Seriously... it sounds like I'm trying to talk you into the BBG... all I'm saying is if you try something else... report back on how it works after a week or so.

For anyone else that wants to try and DIY something like this... here are my ideas so far:

Possible materials: metal mesh pencil cups or other metal mesh office accessories?

Plastic netting that is used in the fish/water filter industry?

(This stuff looks JUST like the "netting" that makes up the body of a BBG or any other zepplin by the way! All you need to do is make a form... like a simple metal pipe, that you can heat and wrap the netting around. If you had a heat resistant fabric then that could be stretched over the form first... and then the plastic with a lower melting temp could be molded over that... and adhere the fabric in place... which is how I guess it's actually done on machines.)

At the hardware store they have a plastic ball cage that protects a lightbulb... it clamps around the bulb base or power cord... I'm thinking some material stretched over this would work also?

For a gasket take a look at the rubber pipe caps... they look like the base of a Rycote softie but without a mic hole... for that we'll make a smaller hole in the center... then heat up a metal rod and push it through hot, so that you get a thicker rolled edge where the mic goes through.

If you want to try something like the K-Tek blimp... then you can buy mic foam pretty cheaply... then roll it up on itself like a burrito... so that you have this cylindrical plug that fits in the end of your round basket... glue it in there and use a really good scissors to round out the ball... then use a regular hand grinder to finish it round.

Just a few thoughts for those of you who are sick of paying such a high price for this stuff... I'd like to have more people trying to crack this nut. The hardest part is that whatever you make has really got to work well... and hopefully look good.
 
MattinSTL said:
For anyone else that wants to try and DIY something like this... here are my ideas so far:
Click to expand...

Have you seen this website?
http://www.joelandkaren.com/mic-zeppelin/
It's a windscreen for a shotgun mic that from the demos seems to work pretty well -- if you haven't seen it before, it might be good for ideas.

MattinSTL said:
Seriously... it sounds like I'm trying to talk you into the BBG... all I'm saying is if you try something else... report back on how it works after a week or so.
Click to expand...

I recognize that though more expensive, the BBG is worth it's money. However, when money is short, if I can get by without the BBG, that means I can sooner buy a good shockmount and the Rycote softie for my shotgun mic, which for filming outdoors definitely needs the best wind protection.



I think I'll buy one of the thick foam solutions, and then gauge from there if the BBG is necessary for my purchases. I'll report back as well, but I'm not yet sure when I'm purchasing the mic. Do you think there's a difference between the Shure A81WS and the Windtech US-2? Seriously, thanks a lot for your help.
 
Shure or Windtech?

Don't know... flip a coin.

The Windtech is sure to fit... the shure? Probably.

Performance-wise? Hmm... ?
 
The BBG/Dead Cat (or Jammer as it's formally named) will handle an outdoor interview in fairly significant wind.

A "low" wind or light breeze is nothing for that combo. If it's what you would call "gusty" then there may be an occasional rumble... basically here's the bottom line on it. If you take a normal shotgun mic that is NOT supposed to be particularly sensitive to wind handling... and put that in a softie (not a blimp, but the furry sleeve things)... then you'll have about the same wind control as an Oktava in a BBG/Jammer... which is to say pretty darn good results.

I'm kicking myself for this... (I had the 671 sitting on the ground next to the mult box and I could have posted my own audio by simply plugging in and getting a feed onto CF)... whatever... the first lady was in town a few months back... Forest Park got a super donation from (escapes me now) for something like a million dollars a year... she was in town for other things also... on this day she was to speak to a crowd of VIPs and state politicians at the top of Art Hill in Forest Park... it was BIG TIME windy that day... it looked like the shoot was going to be an audio disaster... a company (Industrial Tech I think?) set up the sound and stage that day... basically a pro company comes in and handles everything... they set up the entire PA down to the mult-box that all the newscrews plug into... well on this day they dropped the ball... the special mics that they had set up (a pair on the lectern) were NOT cutting it... the wind was gusting and making the dialog unintelligible (prior to the FL arrival)... so anyway... my shooter suggested putting the CS3e in a full blimp on there... and I was busy setting up some stuff so one of the IT guys took a look at it... they realized that wasn't going to cut it... so I ended up running an AKG ck63 inside of a BBG/Jammer... and on the outside of the Jammer I ran our lavs (under the fur) so that we had triple redundancy plus various feeds for all the newscrews (who were all staging by this time and saw what I was doing)... sorry for the long story... so the gist is that the sound was like a freakin' Ipod... it was perfect... I had a couple different newschannels come up to me and thank me for the sound (they were then tapping into the mult-box that I set up)... so it was a great day... all thanks to our little overpriced friend... the BBG/Jammer combo.

I use the Oktava outdoors FREQUENTLY... even though I have other, better mics I could choose... if it's a good paying gig then I always use the best part of my kit... but the rest of the time I use everything almost indiscriminantly... the Oktava is totally capable outdoors if you address the wind and handling (which the BBG/Jammer does).

In case anybody gets confused here... FULL blimps, zepplins, whatever you want to call them... are always BEST... the BBG is a really good alternative that's nearly as good, but NOT as good... still, extremely impressive when you compare results and the price difference.
 
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thanx zach, i'll bookmark that in case i need it. i already bought the BBG and windjammer a coupla weeks ago just havent tested it outside yet with the ocktava.
 
FilmBoy77 said:
...tested it outside yet with the ocktava.
Click to expand...

You should make a thread with pics and test files. It'd be helpful, atleast for me.

Like a test without BBG, with BBG. etc.
 
that's a good idea man. i dont have a problem doing that. i am reshooting a scene from a short i am working on and i will extract audio from that. i may even do a test with a coupla friends later this week.
 
-zach- said:
You should make a thread with pics and test files. It'd be helpful, atleast for me.

Like a test without BBG, with BBG. etc.
Click to expand...

here's a link to a few clips from a short film i'm working on using the Ocktava where we did not use the BBG and windjammer and tested how it would sound when the actor raised his voice loudly: http://www.jamescarveronline.com/video/the_hit/scene8.html

also, not sure if i compressed it too much but it sounds better than that when i play it back in FCP.

i'll be able to do a better test later this week.
 
just my 2c - i used the oktava as my "indoors only" mic for about a year - foam only. this included interior scenes with 8 characters for a reality show, as well as three months on a pretty challenging drama series. so the foam CAN work - i wont lie and say we never had the quick boom swing problem, but 99% of work was absolutely fine.

i recently got the BBG and windjammer, and completed a 2 week documentary using only Schoeps 641's, and occasionally the Oktava - in the bbg/windjammer combo. we used the mics interior and exterior, in up to moderate winds outside - no issues.

so those are some things to think about.. I really think the BBG is a great little tool, and for me its strength lies in the ability to be an indoor/outdoor solution for times when you would never be able to stop and do a mic change, but need to have something that works well in most situations.

tim
 
FilmBoy77 said:
here's a link to a few clips from a short film i'm working on using the Ocktava where we did not use the BBG and windjammer and tested how it would sound when the actor raised his voice loudly: http://www.jamescarveronline.com/video/the_hit/scene8.html

also, not sure if i compressed it too much but it sounds better than that when i play it back in FCP.

i'll be able to do a better test later this week.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this. I'm currently waiting for my Oktava, BBG and furry so I'm anxious to try it myself. Is all that background (people talking) noise added from a different source? Is there any way to hear just the guy's dialogue to see how much hiss sound is heard without the added track??? If not, that's ok.
Jgastelb
 
jgastelb said:
Does it pick up a lot of hiss???
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nah i didnt get that at all. i dont think you'll have any problems. once its on a boompole and has the foam on it then you're good. with the BBJ/windjammer its supposed to be even better. i've seen footage with somebody using it and i was impressed thats why i havent been in a rush to test it out ith the bbg because i know what it is going to sound like.
 
air flow hits are quit identical almost all brands and quit depends on the microphone pattern , the octava is not less or more proof to that issue .
i didnt find any difference if my booman swing 1500 $ schoeps or 50$(in Moscow:)) octava
good foam is basicly what make the difference till some point where it stops work .
so people - if you intend working indoors invest your 140$ in better suspention(and you need it with octava, esspesially) or mixer that has low cut filters and not in something that no one in the industry put over for interior dialog just for extra protection .
the wind you will hear alwais between the lines and if you hear it over it only say you need to change the booman .
my 0.2 shekels

by the way if Manfred reads this

2 pieces of his acoustic foams with ring in the middle and suitable ring with hall in the back may do wonders for the small microphone wind protection which sits over the mic body
i guess it would work the same and i guess you still would have about 70-80bucks to invest in something else and have quit enouth change if you will deside buy the fur as well
 
last year i used the front of my k-zep (the rounded foam part), and just gaff taped it to my suspension over the mic (im using a rycote shockmount) - made a nice little "foam with air isolation" mount that fixed those quick swing situations if I needed that. I like your idea Oleg.. it would work great.
 
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