Walking Within Fire

Larry Rutledge

Larry Rutledge

Fest Master
I'd like to be able to show people walking around inside a fire, unharmed.

Obviously this could be done with CG, but if not done right that often looks fake. I'm wondering if there are any practical effects I could employ that would make this look real?
 
In the film industry, most fire is generated by propane. Fire bars that are made especially for the occasion. Practical fire is not recommended at any time. In these fires everything is treated or made our of fire retardent materials and the fire is controlled by the fx guys. That being said, the actors, generally stunt people, have on layers of nomex or some other type of protective clothing, and all of the regular clothing is made out of natural fibre. If you use anything like nylon, rayon or polyester, they melt.
My suggestion is that whatever thing your thinking of doing, you contact a reputable fx company and then stunt people. If the fx company is reputable they won't do anything without a stunt man or woman there.
If you really need something like that, my next suggestion would be to contact your local fire department and see if they are going to be doing any training.
 
Larry R said:
I'd like to be able to show people walking around inside a fire, unharmed.

Obviously this could be done with CG, but if not done right that often looks fake. I'm wondering if there are any practical effects I could employ that would make this look real?
Click to expand...

Stock footage and compositing.
 
Not the safeste idea, but how about cheating the shot. Have the fire burning 20 feet away from them and use a telephoto lens to compress the difference more.
 
Thanks for the ideas/suggestions, they give me a lot to consider.

I was recently watching the BTS on Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, and for the shot where Denethor (the steward of Gondor) set the pyre on fire to kill himself and his youngest son, they used a different technique I hadn't considered before. They had the fire burning off to the side then had a piece of glass between the camera and the pyre, at a 45-degree angle. The glass, being clear, allowed the image beyond to show through unhindered, but being at the 45 degree angle caused the fire to be reflected into the camera lens giving the illusion that the fire was on the pyre itself.
 
In Return of the King, when Denethor and faramir were on the wood pile, there was no fire. They used an old fashioned trick that did not involve any digital effects or retouching. They set up an identical pyre adjacent to the camera and lit it on fire, then placed a piece of glass at a 45 degree angle between the camera and the subjects. So, the fire was physically superimposed over the image by the reflection in the glass.

..........<Subjects>
...................l
 ...................l
 ...................l
...................l../
.......GLASS / ••••••••••<Fire>
............../....l•
...................l•
...................l•
...................l•
.............Camera


Hope that makes sense.
 
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Don't forget to add a play of the right kind of light onto the subject to simulate illumination from the flames.
 
Is that just the pepper's ghost trick but with fire, neat,
by the time you arrange and angle the fire you might as well try some compositing.

Firebars bring on a world of potential trouble and need supervision.
Let us know what you go with.
 
Another trick they used in Lord of the Rings for the Balrog was to shoot a variety of real flame elements and then drive millions of them around on the screen using a particle system. I thought it gave rather good results.
 
Have you seen those silly little "torches" that they sell at like party stores, that are really fans blowing strips of paper? From a distance, those don't look half bad.

If you shot on a longer lens, with real fire as a foreground/background element, people might be fooled if you used a similar trick to generate the "fire" in direct contact with your actors.

Whatever you do, test it first.
 
You cud do 2 shots with a locked off camera. 1 with actors on plain ground or set acting as if they are evading flames etc. 2 only burning ground or set elements on fire. Then composite them together.
 
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