25fps film look/motion
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Couple of things;
What exactly are you after as a result?
Are you working with interlaced or progressive footage?
There are loads of other threads on this forum discussing film look techniques, or are you looking for Vegas specific instructions for deinterlacing, colour correcting, curves etc.?
What exactly are you after as a result?
Are you working with interlaced or progressive footage?
There are loads of other threads on this forum discussing film look techniques, or are you looking for Vegas specific instructions for deinterlacing, colour correcting, curves etc.?
Simes said:
The prime target of mine is to get real filmic motion from PAL 25fps interlaced. I got some "formulas" of film look, but now I am really confused about how to "destroy" the smoothest motion of any DV (miniDV) cam. I know that Vegas is briliant about getting 24p film motion from 30fps, but how to get same result from 25fps interlaced to 25p with real film motion? Please for any ideas and examples!
In Vegas, try to change all the clips to "disable resample" mode (right click on clip -> properties) that takes away all the ghost frames and smoothness..
Then theres different ways to try out to get that 'look' for motions ->
- Try to change each clips framerate (right click on clip -> properties -> undersample rate: 24fps) then go to 'render as', then 'custom' and 'video' tab, change from there field order to progressive and render..
- From project properties change framerate to 23.976, put 'field order': progressive, and go to 'render as', then 'custom' and 'video' tab, change from there field order to progressive too and render..
- You can try to slow down your footage 2-4%(or even 8%) and put that disable resample and render field order as progressive, that should give more kind of "jerky looking" (~22-23fps look) than "film look"..
- Render as 50i and try Virtuadub's deinterlace duplicate field 1 or duplicate field 2.. (I dont know does 'disable resample' have effect when renderin footage as 50i)
Theres some techniques.. There might be more ways too.. Try using that disable resample in every method above (If frames get too jerky, try to switch it to 'smart resample', but that might give some videoishnes to motions..)
Also you can try to combine together some of those methods and see how those works..
For example one combination:
Render as 50i (+disable resample) -> Virtuadubs duplicate field 1 -> bring it back to vegas -> project settings as 24p/or change clips undersample rate to 24p/24,5p + put disable resample -> then render as progressive 24 or 25p..
Then theres different ways to try out to get that 'look' for motions ->
- Try to change each clips framerate (right click on clip -> properties -> undersample rate: 24fps) then go to 'render as', then 'custom' and 'video' tab, change from there field order to progressive and render..
- From project properties change framerate to 23.976, put 'field order': progressive, and go to 'render as', then 'custom' and 'video' tab, change from there field order to progressive too and render..
- You can try to slow down your footage 2-4%(or even 8%) and put that disable resample and render field order as progressive, that should give more kind of "jerky looking" (~22-23fps look) than "film look"..
- Render as 50i and try Virtuadub's deinterlace duplicate field 1 or duplicate field 2.. (I dont know does 'disable resample' have effect when renderin footage as 50i)
Theres some techniques.. There might be more ways too.. Try using that disable resample in every method above (If frames get too jerky, try to switch it to 'smart resample', but that might give some videoishnes to motions..)
Also you can try to combine together some of those methods and see how those works..
For example one combination:
Render as 50i (+disable resample) -> Virtuadubs duplicate field 1 -> bring it back to vegas -> project settings as 24p/or change clips undersample rate to 24p/24,5p + put disable resample -> then render as progressive 24 or 25p..
So, I have tried almost everything what all of you said and discussed here. But I am still not satisfied by the results I get. Whatever kind of deinterlace I use, the resulted video still keeps strobes, even if there is low camera motion. I see that any movie or music video is made with specific motion blur which eliminates strobed vision. I think that is the general magic of film motion I am looking for. But probably it is impossible to get it by software or plug-in. If somebody knows a way to get such a motion blur, please share expierence and examples here. Meanwhile, I shot with miniDV cam JVC GR-DVL520A. In that matter, let's everybody who uses miniDV to response here.
Oh, I thought that you were looking "more strobing looking" motion..
Well, I dont know, but its hard to get "perfect film motion" from 50i footage, no matter what you do to footage, its allways too jerky or too smooth compared to real film cam.. (Even my dvx which records 25p makes sometimes (very rarely) too smooth motions compared to real 24frames film cams..)
But, if you want more "blurry smooth" motions, try to use lower shutter speeds? (And to get more flickerin motions, use higher shutter speeds. I used usually higher shutter speeds in my 50i cams, because it made motions to look more kind of "sharper pics" (as progressive does) and motions looks more strobing which hides a bit that 50i smoothnes)
..Then theres that other look which comes from convertin 30fps -> 25fps, that makes slight smooth blur to everything that moves.. It looks like that there is some blurry ghost frames when somebody moves.. Usually older american shows got that look over here in Europe..
I tried once render my 50i footage as 60i and it gave some of those blurs to motions, try it out if that could be it what you are looking for (?)
btw. If the footage was strobing, did you tried to change that 'disable resample' back to 'smart resample' and then try those same methods ? Using smart resample shouldnt cause any strobing, it should give smooth stuff.. But then again, it can be too smooth
Well, I dont know, but its hard to get "perfect film motion" from 50i footage, no matter what you do to footage, its allways too jerky or too smooth compared to real film cam.. (Even my dvx which records 25p makes sometimes (very rarely) too smooth motions compared to real 24frames film cams..)
But, if you want more "blurry smooth" motions, try to use lower shutter speeds? (And to get more flickerin motions, use higher shutter speeds. I used usually higher shutter speeds in my 50i cams, because it made motions to look more kind of "sharper pics" (as progressive does) and motions looks more strobing which hides a bit that 50i smoothnes)
..Then theres that other look which comes from convertin 30fps -> 25fps, that makes slight smooth blur to everything that moves.. It looks like that there is some blurry ghost frames when somebody moves.. Usually older american shows got that look over here in Europe..
I tried once render my 50i footage as 60i and it gave some of those blurs to motions, try it out if that could be it what you are looking for (?)
btw. If the footage was strobing, did you tried to change that 'disable resample' back to 'smart resample' and then try those same methods ? Using smart resample shouldnt cause any strobing, it should give smooth stuff.. But then again, it can be too smooth
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I dont need to get 24p in any case, I would be glad to get 25p too. But the problem is that I cant get the specific film motion blur, understand now? Ok, I am giving you an example: have you ever seen a video taken with digital photo camera or with mobile phone camera? Yes, the quality is very low, but the motion blur is almost what I want to get in Vegas. You see that if there is not such a motion blur in a phone camera or in digital photo camera, the motion will be so strobed. So, do you really understand what I am looking for?
All that you said, Omni, is ok in theory, but it is not like that in real. Whatever I do, the strobing video remains, no solution. I shoot at 1/50th. Tried at 1/120 too, or without any of that - same same.
All that you said, Omni, is ok in theory, but it is not like that in real. Whatever I do, the strobing video remains, no solution. I shoot at 1/50th. Tried at 1/120 too, or without any of that - same same.